Pregame: Illinois vs Nebraska, Saturday, January 16th, 1:30pm CT, BTN

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#101      
Apparently we both agree that we make almost no effort toward offensive rebounding. You're just saying that you think it's strategic. I was hoping it was just a coaching oversight instead of being strategic.

I maintain that NO team needs 4 guys trotting back on defense when a shot goes in the air. This team has NEVER had a problem w/ transition defense. But, why would we - we've got that quadruple covered.

Right, the strategy seems to be working.


We put effort in on the defensive side of the ball (I'm sure that's strategic too).

Well, no....I'd say it's just an obvious necessity. It's hard to play effective defense if you keep letting the other team get the ball.

But I do strongly believe we have opportunities on the offensive side.

Could be, but those opportunities come at a cost. Again, our 2 best rebounders are hurt. Given that rebounding is not a strength of the team, do you really think it's a good area to make additional investments?

Personally, I think it's VERY VERY poor decision to strategically make almost no effort to win the offensive boards.

Be sure to pass this thought along to John Beilein and Bo Ryan.
 
#102      

Bailey

Los Angeles
Apparently we both agree that we make almost no effort toward offensive rebounding. You're just saying that you think it's strategic. I was hoping it was just a coaching oversight instead of being strategic.

It's strategic

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/1...se-left-offensive-rebounds-cutting-room-floor

xsSXPuf.png
 
#104      

zpfled

Logan Square, Chicago
Lol Groce is reading the boards :)
 
#105      
It is not only our strategy. Many other teams follow the same idea.

I like to think I always have an open mind.

Please name 5-10 TOP teams that strategically don't hit the offensive boards. I don't know of any. I will make it a point to watch them. I would think such a strategy would be detrimental to any team. I'm interested in ANY evidence to the contrary.

I mean... what would it hurt to have 3 players hit the boards with 2 safety valves. Especially when your opponent is crashing their defensive boards with 5 and not even trying to run on us... In my opinion, the best teams understand their opponents and if the other team crashes the defensive board with 5 and doesn't even try to run... then it's prudent to crash yourself with 4. There is NEVER 1 recipe that yields the highest success. Analyze and adapt. But, I don't know of ANY good team that just ignores the offensive boards like we do...
 
#106      

Dan

Admin
John Groce press conference

https://twitter.com/JWernerScout

Groce: Freshmen are getting better. Collectively, the 3 of them had their best game Sunday. Like their progress.

Groce: Their habits are getting better.

Groce: White and Shields are a handful. Freshmen are getting better. I think they're playing really well right now.

Groce: Khalid Lewis "has been an integral part ... He's been a Godsend." Getting more comfortable. Making guys better.

Groce: Kipper Nichols has done great with scout team stuff. He can pick things up quick. Mentally sharp.

Groce: Kipper is competitive, physical, energy. "He's a straight-up Tigger."

Groce: Learn about your team as you go. This team needs physical practices. We need to keep foot on gas pedal.

Groce refuses to get into conversation about why Illinois didn't go harder after Glynn Watson or Ed Morrow.

Groce said Ed Morrow has some similarities to Leron Black in rebounding. Has a knack for it.

Groce: Trying to do more with Thorne to see how knee responds. Still out indefinitely, along with Leron.

Groce: No chance Tracy comes back this year. Other two are out indefinitely.

Groce: Don't anticipate either Black nor Thorne getting any game action imminently.

Groce: Mike Thorne Jr "as of today" is closer to getting to the court than Leron Black.

Groce: But we're not banking on either coming back. That'd be more than a luxury.

Groce: Key for us is for this rendition of the team is getting better. That's what we're focused on.

Groce: DJ Williams getting better for longer. Understands our defense better. Handling things better (whether success or failure).

Groce: Nebraska has more firepower than in recent seasons.

Groce: For us to play at a high level, Hill "has to be engaged." Been huge for us but I still think he has more. Does so much for us

Groce: This freshman class has been thrown into the fire earlier than any freshman class we've had here.

Groce: I think they've learned quite a bit going through and I think for sure it's going to benefit us in long-term

Groce: Don't have the personnel right now to always attack offensive glass. More of a focus on getting back on defense.

Groce: You have to figure out what you're great at and do that. You rob Peter to pay Paul. It's a delicate balance.

[youtube]3hAtcdex_IQ[/youtube]
 
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#107      


Wow... it seems similar to playing chess with the strategy of sacrificing your queen to make room for your other pieces to move around. If your opponent makes no effort to run- why just trot back. I'd think using your head would still be beneficial. If the other team runs and is hurting you then getting back with more players makes some sense, but that sure doesn't happen with our team.
 
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#108      
“I always laugh when people ask me about rebounding techniques. I’ve got a technique It’s called just go get the damn ball” – Charles Barkley
 
#109      

ILL in IA

Iowa City
It doesn't address why he didn't go harder after Glen Watson, but by the second answer of Morrow he said why he didn't go after him harder. He is similar to Leron Black. Felt like he already had Morrow on the roster.
 
#110      

ILL in IA

Iowa City
Wow... it seems similar to playing chess with the strategy of sacrificing your queen to make room for your other pieces to move around. If your opponent makes no effort to run- why just trot back. I'd think using your head would still be beneficial. If the other team runs and is hurting you then getting back with more players makes some sense, but that sure doesn't happen with our team.
The idea of it seems like it should be something looked at game by game. Playing Iowa who likes to get the ball and go, I can see why you don't crash the offensive glass as hard. Against some teams that are going to walk it up, why not crash the offensive boards harder.
 
#111      

Bailey

Los Angeles
I like to think I always have an open mind.

Please name 5-10 TOP teams that strategically don't hit the offensive boards. I don't know of any. I will make it a point to watch them. I would think such a strategy would be detrimental to any team. I'm interested in ANY evidence to the contrary.

I mean... what would it hurt to have 3 players hit the boards with 2 safety valves. Especially when your opponent is crashing their defensive boards with 5 and not even trying to run on us... In my opinion, the best teams understand their opponents and if the other team crashes the defensive board with 5 and doesn't even try to run... then it's prudent to crash yourself with 4. There is NEVER 1 recipe that yields the highest success. Analyze and adapt. But, I don't know of ANY good team that just ignores the offensive boards like we do...

Spurs abandon offensive boards - most of the league has followed suit. Transition defense has become more important.

This applies to us moreso with LB and MT out.
 
#112      
Can we get a drive and kick to AJ for an open three. I could see the young man making a living shooting those from 23-25 ft in the pros with the exact same quick trigger and jumping height we see him take. I still want to see him shoot a real pull up jumper though too. Defensively the game has slowed down for AJ, and I know it will on the o side sooner rather than later. Our freshman class is ridiculous.
 
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#113      
Here's a few more...

“No rebounds – no rings” – Pat Riley

“Basketball is a simple game. Your goal is penetration, get the ball close to the basket, and there are three ways to do that. Pass, dribble and offensive rebound” – Phil Jackson

“I feel all great teams have two things in common: defense and rebounding. So, we stress defense and rebounding every day as the most important aspects in the game to win” – Larry Brown

"Rebounding wins championships, you need to emphasize it and work with kids on it." -- Pat Summitt

"Your contribution as a coach is defending and rebounding." -- Dick Motta
 
#114      

whovous

Washington, DC
I like to think I always have an open mind.

Please name 5-10 TOP teams that strategically don't hit the offensive boards. I don't know of any. I will make it a point to watch them. I would think such a strategy would be detrimental to any team. I'm interested in ANY evidence to the contrary.

I mean... what would it hurt to have 3 players hit the boards with 2 safety valves. Especially when your opponent is crashing their defensive boards with 5 and not even trying to run on us... In my opinion, the best teams understand their opponents and if the other team crashes the defensive board with 5 and doesn't even try to run... then it's prudent to crash yourself with 4. There is NEVER 1 recipe that yields the highest success. Analyze and adapt. But, I don't know of ANY good team that just ignores the offensive boards like we do...

While I am not entirely enamored of the strategy, it is intentional and not merely oversight. Others on this board have pointed to Beilein at Michigan, Bo Ryan at Wisconsin, the Spurs in the NBA and much of the rest of the NBA following suit.

FWIW, we seemed to do a lot more intentional fighting for rebounds against Purdue than we did in prior games.
 
#115      

eMitch

Quincy, IL
Apparently we both agree that we make almost no effort toward offensive rebounding. You're just saying that you think it's strategic. I was hoping it was just a coaching oversight instead of being strategic.

I maintain that NO team needs 4 guys trotting back on defense when a shot goes in the air. This team has NEVER had a problem w/ transition defense. <snip>

Apparently, you missed the MSU game. Our transition defense was the worst I've ever seen. Seriously.
 
#116      
Apparently, you missed the MSU game. Our transition defense was the worst I've ever seen. Seriously.

Izzo is a master at teaching transition off a rebound or made basket. And we rank 328th in rebounds per ESPN. Recipe for disaster.
 
#117      
I like to think I always have an open mind.

Please name 5-10 TOP teams that strategically don't hit the offensive boards. I don't know of any. I will make it a point to watch them. I would think such a strategy would be detrimental to any team. I'm interested in ANY evidence to the contrary.

I mentioned 2 above, Michigan under Beilein and Wisconsin under Bo Ryan.
 
#119      

illininks

Shawnee, KS
Wow... it seems similar to playing chess with the strategy of sacrificing your queen to make room for your other pieces to move around. If your opponent makes no effort to run- why just trot back. I'd think using your head would still be beneficial. If the other team runs and is hurting you then getting back with more players makes some sense, but that sure doesn't happen with our team.

Well I agree with you... I wish we would hit boards more.

But it worked in the last game.
 
#120      
Without knowing how the bubble will look in March, we can still get a decent feel for how many wins Illinois would need to have a chance at an at-large bid.

RPIForecast.com gives us the ability to simulate the rest of the season and spit out RPI ranks for Illinois given various records. After doing this, I feel like the following statements are valid:

1) Illinois needs at least 21 wins on Selection Sunday to even be considered for an at-large bid.
2) Illinois needs at least 22 wins on Selection Sunday to have a greater than 50% chance at getting an at-large bid.
3) Illinois would be a lock with 23 wins.

Finishing with 21 wins would give Illinois an RPI in the mid-60s, regardless of how they got there. We know that raw RPI rank isn't used directly to put teams in or out, but I don't believe a team with an RPI worse than 67th has ever gotten an at-large bid. A 21-win Illinois team would at least have a chance of getting in, but it might still not be likely.

Finishing with 22 wins would give Illinois an RPI in the low to mid-50s. Major conference teams with an RPI in this range are almost always in the bubble discussion. Some get in, some don't. At 22 wins, Illinois' resume would be scrutinized in much greater detail, so the distribution of wins would become even more important (i.e. a home win over Iowa would be much more valuable than a road win over Wisconsin, even though each would have the same impact on RPI).

It's unlikely that Illinois gets to the 21 win threshold, but I haven't given up on the possibility yet. It would require something like 11-7 in conference play combined with two BTT wins. Given the weakness in the lower half of the Big Ten and Illinois' favorable conference schedule, it's still possible. It will take an improved level of performance from what we've seen so far, but the youth and inexperience of the team gives some reason to hope that they are actually turning a corner.

Or, they could lose to Nebraska and dash all of this newfound optimism. :)
 
#121      
Sounds like a great use of your time and parents money!

Someone mentioned earlier that dorms don't open until Sunday. I'm sure there will be more students than there have been in the last few games.
The frat houses have surely restocked their kegs this week, which should draw some back for the weekend.
 
#122      

whovous

Washington, DC
Does this web page take into account the "recovery from injury" phenomena at all? There seems to be a lot of belief that if you lose games due to injury, and then play better when the injured players return, that the committee will give extra consideration to what otherwise looks like a poor W-L record.

Of course, that assumes we have some more players recover.
 
#123      

lstewart53x3

Scottsdale, Arizona
Does this web page take into account the "recovery from injury" phenomena at all? There seems to be a lot of belief that if you lose games due to injury, and then play better when the injured players return, that the committee will give extra consideration to what otherwise looks like a poor W-L record.

Of course, that assumes we have some more players recover.

Well, we didn't have KNunn for 2 of our losses. So that might help if we're on the bubble. But we do need some key wins over teams in the top 3rd of the conference to even make it onto the bubble, IMO.
 
#125      

whovous

Washington, DC
If we are #74 now, winning 9 of the final 14 could well get us to the low 50s. Add a tourney win or two, and who knows?
 
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