St. Louis Cardinals 2022

I wouldn’t be upset if the signed Quintana.

BillyBob1 said:

I wouldn’t be upset if the signed Quintana.

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I'd be fine if they signed Quintana after signing Rodon!

Looking at the teams that had success in the playoffs, they all had pitchers that can strike people out. We didn't have a single starting pitcher that averaged a strikeout an inning or more. The Phillies had 2 and the Astros and Yankees each had 3. Padres had 4, but traded one away (Gore).

We've built a rotation that has pretty much zero swing and miss. It's all sinkerballers who try to induce groundouts. Quintana is very good, almost certainly the best pitcher we had by the end of the season, but also very much in that same mold. We don't even have any strikeout pitchers in the minors who are close to debuting. The closest is Tink Hence and he's a couple years away at least.

I'd love to keep Quintana, but not at the expense of what we really need, which is an ace who can make opposing batters look silly.

Rick Hummel
Two weeks have passed since the Cardinals’ season came to an abrupt halt as they lost two consecutive games to Philadelphia here after rookie manager Oliver Marmol had guided the club to a National League Central Division championship.
There will be four months of reflection before the Cardinals, many of them anyway, gather in Jupiter, Florida, to prepare for the 2023 season, but Marmol said this past week, “I would have done everything the same (in the playoffs), to be honest with you.”

Then he did summon one decision he would have made differently. He would have removed relief ace Ryan Helsley after Helsley had walked two hitters to fill the bases in the ninth inning of Game 1 before Helsley hit Alec Bohm to force in the first of six runs the Phillies would score in the ninth in a 6-3 victory.
“That’s it,” said Marmol. “I don’t regret a whole lot.”
Helsley, showing uncommon lack of control after striking out two of the first three men he faced, was coming off an absence of several days. He had jammed the middle finger of his pitching hand while while making a fielding play during the last series of the regular season in Pittsburgh.
But he stayed in, said Marmol, “because he didn’t say he was hurt.”
Helsley later would say he didn’t have the feel for his pitches, but he had retired the first three men he faced before not retiring the next four. He said his finger didn’t hurt at any point.

I simply do not understand managers complete lack of the realization of players who are at the MLB level. They simply do not quit. (For the most part.) They do not want to leave a game. They have excelled their whole life and won't admit they are not capable. It's the manager's job to know they can not trust the player. The bigger the game the more they "need" to compete. When it comes to the pitcher they can't even trust the catcher's opinion if he tells the manager the pitcher still "has it".

Just a few years ago we went through this lack of honesty by a pitcher who failed miserably because he didn't want to leave a game. Then got lit up by the batters.

good chat article

Jeff Albert and Maddux both step down.

illini0440 said:

Jeff Albert and Maddux both step down.

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it didn't actually say if Albert was fired or not , just that he won't return......

Albert and Maddux moves both voluntary

illini0440 said:

Jeff Albert and Maddux both step down.

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Happy to be rid of the claw!

NEIlliniFan said:

Albert and Maddux moves both voluntary

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They're also re-assigning the bullpen coach within the organization.

Ben Frederickson


Wanted: A Cardinals hitting coach who can help snap what has become a postseason freeze.
Mandatory requirement: Must be able to handle a hot-topic assignment for a team with a fanbase that is passionate, vocal and, yes, somewhat crazy.
Former Cardinals hitting coach Jeff Albert did some good things for the organization during his much-discussed four seasons here, but a return to the organization that began with an awkward distraction – remember the Astros sign-stealing scandal? – has now concluded in an odd departure.
It wasn’t the continued trend of quiet bats in the postseason that led to the Cardinals parting ways with Albert.

The Cardinals, according to president of baseball operations John Mozeliak, were prepared to offer the hitting coach a new contract as his current one expired this offseason.
But Albert instead chose to walk away, a decision Mozeliak at Wednesday’s season-ending press conference characterized as Albert being motivated to turn the page in large part because of criticism he received.
Not criticism within the organization, Mozeliak stressed.
Criticism from beyond it.

Rick Hummel

Suddenly, there are four coaching vacancies on the Cardinals’ major-league staff, an unusual housecleaning for a team that, though it failed in the playoffs, won 93 games and a division championship.
But president of baseball operations John Mozeliak planned to renovate only one part of the house — the bullpen, where bullpen coach Bryan Eversgerd, with the Cardinals’ major-league staff from 2018-22, has been reassigned as a special assistant in the organization.
Bench coach Skip Schumacher had an option to come back in that role but chose to accept the Miami Marlins’ managerial offer.
Mozeliak said he had offered pitching coach Mike Maddux a new contract but that Maddux, who had been here from 2018-22, had wanted to step away from the major-league coaching scene “and do something at a different pace,” Mozeliak said.


“He’s just done it for so long (20 seasons with four major league teams),” Mozeliak said.
And Mozeliak told the media Wednesday at Busch Stadium that he was prepared to offer embattled Jeff Albert a new contract but that Albert, who had been the hitting coach from 2019-22, had said he was tired of the noise from the court of public opinion that had gone thumbs-down on Albert’s hitting philosophy, essentially blaming him for any and all offensive slumps.
“Jeff accomplished exactly what we were hoping he would do,” Mozeliak said. “He modernized our hitting program, our strategy. He made a huge contribution to our minor-league side. From that standpoint, it was a success.

Derrick Goold
Almost 11 years after he stood at the same spot at the same ballpark to describe the same absence leaving the Cardinals lineup, John Mozeliak sat Wednesday behind a microphone at Busch Stadium and said, yes, replacing Albert Pujols’ production will be essential for the coming season.
They were able to find an answer before.
Doing so again could take them to a place they have not been.
“Clearly that second half, he was really carrying our offense, and now that’s gone,” said Mozeliak, the team’s president of baseball operations. “Don’t have a plan yet. Don’t have something we can go follow. Look at our offense. I think the key is how do you protect (Paul Goldschmidt) and Nolan (Arenado) in that lineup. And that’s just something we’re going to have to look at.”

Two days before the team that ousted the Cardinals from the playoffs — National League champion Philadelphia — begins the World Series, Mozeliak held a news conference chock full of news. The Cardinals disclosed that pitching coach Mike Maddux, seeking a break from years on the daily grind, and hitting coach Jeff Albert, seeking a new challenge elsewhere, had both declined to return to the club and there would be four openings to fill on manager Oliver Marmol’s staff for the 2023 season. The team also announced a one-year agreement with veteran pitcher Adam Wainwright to bring him back for a 19th — and final — season.
If the Cardinals are successful in one of their offseason priorities, Wainwright, who spent a career playing catch with Yadier Molina, will throw to a new No. 1 catcher for the first time. Mozeliak detailed an offseason shopping list that included an everyday catcher, pitching depth and looking for a hitter who would add dimension, depth and damage to the lineup. (Left-handed hitter preferred.)

I know a lot of fans think Albert was bad at his job, but just remember, he was responsible for the hitting philosophy organization wide. So the huge strides we saw in development of batters like Walker, Winn, etc in the minors; that's Albert. Our offense was good overall this season, but inconsistent. I'm guessing that had more to do with talent level rather than coaching, but I suppose time will tell.

the juiceman cometh said:

I know a lot of fans think Albert was bad at his job, but just remember, he was responsible for the hitting philosophy organization wide. So the huge strides we saw in development of batters like Walker, Winn, etc in the minors; that's Albert. Our offense was good overall this season, but inconsistent. I'm guessing that had more to do with talent level rather than coaching, but I suppose time will tell.

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The hypocrisy of holding teacher's , or manager's or anyone else in a leadership role responsible for a hitter , or an agent (as was my role as a sales manager)
for another person's performance is so prevalent in today's instant gratification society and so overblown as the reason for failures OR even successes.....

As a sales manager my job was to teach the most beneficial way and course of action to make those under my supervision reach their goals and the goals for the company......So many things come into play as a course of action , such as the quality of the agent or the hitter to understand and grasp fully the info to either continue the ascension up the ladder of success or to even rekindle the enthusiasm for succeeding......

My point is this....... A hitting coach does not stand in the batter's box with the hitter.......A pitching coach does not toe the rubber on the mound with the pitcher........The hope is what has been taught will be put to good use and improve said performance for the good of all concerned.....

I never got down on Jeff A. or Mike M. for the failures of hitting or pitching unless it was abundantly clear that they didn't care or didn't know what the problem was or how to fix it....I didn't see that in either case....................

hitter's sometimes go into slumps....pitcher's do the same ...........the work required to alleviate said slumps has to be done by both parties.....

I know this is a rambling post , but hitting a baseball is hard .....Very hard.....I played organized baseball for over 10 years and at age 16 had a Cardinals scout take me aside after I pitched in an American legion tournament game and said he had his eye on me.......this is a true fact.......needless to say , back then was also when the love generation and sex , drugs and rock & roll was gaining steam across the nation.......I succumbed to that temptation and joined a band and that became my focal point in life ........baseball was still in my life , but the passion had been replaced by that new temptation.....

the hitter's hitting and the pitcher's pitching should be held far more accountable than the coaches , if the coaches were doing there job......the tools available now and the analytics with that make me feel this way .....that the people actually doing the hitting and pitching are at fault......

Why did Goldie go into such a prolonged slump in September that lasted for the rest of the season ???.....
Why did Waino go into such a prolonged slump in September that lasted for the rest of the season..???.....

It's called poor performance and poor results.......Period ..............case closed .............It happens ..................JMHO

So it looks like Waino's deal is for the same amount, 1 yr/$17.5 million, BUT $10 million of that is deferred salary of $1 million a year for the next 10 years so that should theoretically free up $10 million more for this year's payroll.

Questions for 2023

Can Gorman still play an 'adequate/mediocre' 2B when the shift is outlawed? Or is he just a LH platoon DH short of Arenado opting out?

Do the Cardinals need to make sure to win the Central with the balanced schedule? Lots more Wild card teams in the other divisions.

Left handed bat. Dickerson back, Joc Pederson, a flyer on Cody Belanger if non-tendered?

High average value short year ace. 2-3 years on Verlander/DeGrom?

Can Tyler 'Charles Atlas' O'Neill stay healthy? (Okay, I am old, don't kick sand in my face, lol!)

These are really good questions, so I'll play

jmwillini said:

Can Gorman still play an 'adequate/mediocre' 2B when the shift is outlawed? Or is he just a LH platoon DH short of Arenado opting out?

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Interesting question which begs this follow up: when Walker gets called up, which two of these three are you more comfortable seeing in the field: Gorman, Yepez, Walker.

I feel like Gorman is the safest bet to be a serviceable fielder of the three, and will need to be in order to get enough ABs. If he can't play in a post shift world, he may spend some time in AAA and we may see a lot of Donovan at 2B (unless we sign a SS!). Walker may be fine, I just think his fielding is kind of an unknown and he's relatively new to being an OF. I really don't trust Yepez, and would expect him to get a decent chunk of the DH at bats this season, barring some major FA signing for DH (or continued injury problems in the OF).

jmwillini said:

Do the Cardinals need to make sure to win the Central with the balanced schedule? Lots more Wild card teams in the other divisions.

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My opinion, barring significant investment this offseason the Central is unlikely to take one of the wildcard spots.

jmwillini said:

Left handed bat. Dickerson back, Joc Pederson, a flyer on Cody Belanger if non-tendered?

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Joc, all day, every day.

jmwillini said:

High average value short year ace. 2-3 years on Verlander/DeGrom?

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I'd take either, but is it possible for something to have less than a zero percent chance of happening?

Daniel Guerrero
When it comes to where the Cardinals' pitching prospects ranked among others around MiLB at the start of 2022, much focus was on left-hander Matthew Liberatore.
And while the 22-year-old who entered the year widely viewed as the Cardinals' top pitching prospect got his first shot at pitching in the majors, other pitching prospects lower in the Cardinals’ farm system made progressions to strengthen the depth behind him as a part of St. Louis’ pitching pipeline.
Across all four levels of the Cardinals’ full-season affiliates, these are some of the notable pitcher performances from 2022:
Right-handed pitcher Gordon Graceffo, Class High-A Peoria/Class AA Springfield: The work Graceffo put in an offseason ago back in his home state of New Jersey to improve his velocity flashed potential during spring training and paid dividends in the form of a 2.97 ERA and a 0.94 WHIP over 139 1/3 innings over the course of 2022. The efforts garnered an endorsement from Cardinals president of baseball operations John Mozeliak as one of the organizations's prospects who made the biggest strides this year.
Graceffo spent the first two months of the minor-league season with Peoria before being promoted to Springfield in late May. Class AA hitters challenged the 22-year-old, but he found success in the last month of the season as he tossed 16 2/3 scoreless innings in three September starts. He finished the year tied for the eighth-lowest WHIP among minor-leaguer pitchers who complete 130 innings or more and was seventh in strikeouts-to-walk ratio with a 4.96 mark.
“It's been a wild ride. If you told me I'd be here today last year, I don't know if I would believe you,” Graceffo said during an August interview in Springfield, Missouri of his rise to Class AA.

Daniel Guerrero

With one swing Jordan Walker provided Salt River’s only run in its 3-1 loss to Mesa on Monday night in the Arizona Fall League. The 20-year-old belted his third home run of the fall league when he sent a 3-2 pitch from Marlins pitching prospect Holt Jones over the center field wall in the fourth inning of Salt River’s loss.
The home run was Walker’s first since he hit a 434-foot home run on Oct. 10 and was the only hit for the 20-year-old as he went one-for-four and struck out twice on Monday.
Walker is batting .283 with a .543 slugging percentage, and 10 RBIs through 13 games. Six of Walker’s 13 hits have been extra-base hits.
The 20-year-old was one of five Cardinals prospects to play on Monday. Here is some of them did against Mesa:

Left-handed pitcher Connor Thomas: Coming off a 10-strikeout performance in his last outing, Thomas made quick work of opposing hitters as he got through four perfect innings and struck out five of the first 12 batters he faced on Monday night. Thomas ended his outing after he tossed innings, allowed one run on two hits, and struck out seven. He didn’t allow a baserunner until the fifth inning when Yankees prospect Tyler Hardman doubled to right field with two outs in the frame.