The Illinois Coaching Search

coryfor3 · Mar 14, 2017

richwoods82 said:
Two names I want to throw into thread for your reading enjoyment.

Andy Enfield (USC). He has taken the Trojans to the NCAA tournament the past two years with impressive records. He took Florida Gulf Coast to the Sweet 16 in 2012-2013. He has NBA assistant coaching experience, he is a East Coast guy (PA). He's fairly young (47). Why leave USC for Illinois. USC is a football school. He may be enticed by salary increase. He makes around $1.5M. Why would Illinois hire him? He wins everywhere he goes. Maybe he will bring Nick Rackocevic with him.

Danny Hurley (brother of Bobby Hurley). Has coached the Rhode Island team to a 24-9 record and a trip to the NCAA tournament. He has spent 6 years with Rhode Island and prior to that spent two years with Wagner. What I like about this hire is that he was an Assistant Coach at St. Anthony High School and a Head Coach at St. Benedict's Prep School and if you know high school basketball both of these schools are consistently nationally ranked basketball programs. Current salary: $1M max. Has several 4 star recruits on current roster Kuran Iverson (former Memphis commit) and Stanford Robinson (former Indiana Commit). Why would he leave Rhode Island. Why not. The chance to coach in the B10. Why would Illinois hire him. He is the Hurley that will not leave for the Duke coaching job when it becomes vacant. The buyout clause is reasonable between ($600K and $1.2M). And he can flat out coach.

Dan is the more proven coach. Bobby may want to leave for the Duke job but it won't be his to leave for. I would have thought both Hurleys would want to stay on the East Coast so I was very surprised when Bobby bolted for ASU. But life in Scottsdale is pretty attractive..idk. I would be equally surprised if either of them wanted to be in Big 10 country.

drew306 · Mar 14, 2017

RichardKeenesHair said:
How about if you never had to know about it? I think part of the qualification to be a great coach now is to manage these things so they don't spill over into something larger. As I said upthread, IMHO Bill Self is the perfect "cheater" - he pushes the envelope as far is it will go all with plausible deniability. I respect him for it

Wouldn't go as far to say as I respect him for it nor would I deny that your scenario appeals to me. Perhaps I should have stated clearer, I have some tolerance for bad behavior when it comes to recruiting. I was just very turned off by the suggestion of paying players outrageous sums of money up front.

And in response to Goillini40, I am perfectly fine with where Illinois basketball is at right now if they only other alternative is whoring out the school to become a semi-professional team a la Kentucky.

combes · Mar 14, 2017

Why would we want Enfield?

http://sports.terra.com/meet-fgcu-c...fb5c620a2398d310VgnVCM20000099cceb0aRCRD.html

I'm going to guess that she wants to stay in California.

zpfled · Mar 14, 2017

Whitman2020 said:
How about just blowing the damn gasket on these things when we lose them? How is this not a thing?

Good luck ever getting another recruit of that level to talk to you, ever again, if you do that.

That's my guess, anyway.

dmac279 · Mar 14, 2017

KrushCow31 said:
If the NCAA isn't going to equally enforce their laws/enforce them at all, why should we still follow them? What benefit do we get for following the rules to a T? It's not even an integrity issue, because the rules are dumb to begin with. I'm 26.

Bingo, they are not enforced equally(North Carolina).

RichardKeenesHair · Mar 14, 2017

UICFLAMES said:
It is so easy to sit back and shoot down names.

the home run was a swing and a miss, everyone of the candidates now know they were not first choice, and no one has a bigger ego than a college coach, so that is a problem. Plus the amount of salary was out there, which is also going to complicate things. 5 years ago, we ended up with JFG, and 5 years later, we are a worse program. What would that indicate to you about the caliber of coach that we are ultimately going to get? In the end, we will get a mid major coach, or a high level assistant who is a good recruiter. I think that is the ceiling of this search. The floor is Roger Powell, Deon Thomas, former ILL great who were ok assistant coaches, that will make the program at least feel good about bringing one of their own back.

0% chance. A coach looking at the Illinois job is not going to base his feelings on the potential here based on what Groce did. It's not a secret he wasn't much of a coach

mattcoldagelli · Mar 14, 2017

UICFLAMES said:
It is so easy to sit back and shoot down names.

the home run was a swing and a miss, everyone of the candidates now know they were not first choice, and no one has a bigger ego than a college coach, so that is a problem. Plus the amount of salary was out there, which is also going to complicate things. 5 years ago, we ended up with JFG, and 5 years later, we are a worse program. What would that indicate to you about the caliber of coach that we are ultimately going to get? In the end, we will get a mid major coach, or a high level assistant who is a good recruiter. I think that is the ceiling of this search. The floor is Roger Powell, Deon Thomas, former ILL great who were ok assistant coaches, that will make the program at least feel good about bringing one of their own back.

I respect someone drinking before noon like this.

combes · Mar 14, 2017

UICFLAMES said:
It is so easy to sit back and shoot down names.

the home run was a swing and a miss, everyone of the candidates now know they were not first choice, and no one has a bigger ego than a college coach, so that is a problem. Plus the amount of salary was out there, which is also going to complicate things. 5 years ago, we ended up with JFG, and 5 years later, we are a worse program. What would that indicate to you about the caliber of coach that we are ultimately going to get? In the end, we will get a mid major coach, or a high level assistant who is a good recruiter. I think that is the ceiling of this search. The floor is Roger Powell, Deon Thomas, former ILL great who were ok assistant coaches, that will make the program at least feel good about bringing one of their own back.

Watch

mattcoldagelli · Mar 14, 2017

UICFLAMES said:
So you believe we get a higher caliber coach than Groce was five years ago, what do you base that on, and please dont just say Josh Whitman, because he played his trump card like Lovie, and it didnt work.

Cuonzo Martin will take this job if offered, and he is a higher caliber coach than Groce.

So, yes.

Illiniguy13 · Mar 14, 2017

UICFLAMES said:
It is so easy to sit back and shoot down names.

the home run was a swing and a miss, everyone of the candidates now know they were not first choice, and no one has a bigger ego than a college coach, so that is a problem. Plus the amount of salary was out there, which is also going to complicate things. 5 years ago, we ended up with JFG, and 5 years later, we are a worse program. What would that indicate to you about the caliber of coach that we are ultimately going to get? In the end, we will get a mid major coach, or a high level assistant who is a good recruiter. I think that is the ceiling of this search. The floor is Roger Powell, Deon Thomas, former ILL great who were ok assistant coaches, that will make the program at least feel good about bringing one of their own back.

So Monty was the only home run hire, eh? Nevermind the other coaches mentioned in the thread, right?

bert1991 · Mar 14, 2017

ILL in IA said:
I feel like we know where Cuonzo can take Illimois. I'd put Keats over him if we can't get Miller or Marshall.

Totally agree with the above!

I know you posted this a few pages ago, but I've got lots of catching up to do! Sorry folks!

RichardKeenesHair · Mar 14, 2017

UICFLAMES said:
So you believe we get a higher caliber coach than Groce was five years ago, what do you base that on, and please dont just say Josh Whitman, because he played his trump card like Lovie, and it didnt work.

Well, yes I think we will get a higher caliber coach than Groce even if we raid the local junior high. But as far as judging when hired - Groce was 34-30 in his conference and had never finished higher than 3rd. His only qualifications were being around OSU when they got the best college center in a generation and having a PG go absolutely off in the tourney. Everyone being reasonably discussed right now has a better background. If true that Whitman has $3-$5 million at his disposal then the floor is Kevin Keatts, not Deon Thomas

zpfled · Mar 14, 2017

UICFLAMES said:
It is so easy to sit back and shoot down names.

the home run was a swing and a miss, everyone of the candidates now know they were not first choice, and no one has a bigger ego than a college coach, so that is a problem. Plus the amount of salary was out there, which is also going to complicate things. 5 years ago, we ended up with JFG, and 5 years later, we are a worse program. What would that indicate to you about the caliber of coach that we are ultimately going to get? In the end, we will get a mid major coach, or a high level assistant who is a good recruiter. I think that is the ceiling of this search. The floor is Roger Powell, Deon Thomas, former ILL great who were ok assistant coaches, that will make the program at least feel good about bringing one of their own back.

Wrong and wrong. Our worst-case is Cuonzo, and that's only going to happen if something falls apart.

You are going to be pleasantly surprised. I do understand the pessimism though.

618MattD · Mar 14, 2017

WARDFORTHREE said:
The "grey area" I was speaking of would only be on the front-end of the recruitment. So hypothetically, a player we will call Rerrick Dose's, brother and uncle say they will have him come here if we paid them all $90K, would you be ok doing that? I ask because those big recruitments we all get so frustrated with losing, need this to compete more often than not. So would you be ok paying someone to get them to come here?

Depends. How many stars is Rerrick?

dmac279 · Mar 14, 2017

Illinimedic said:
My biggest question regarding Cuonzo Martin is not as much his perceived (whether true or not) X&O's weakness or his ability to recruit Chicago...the bigger question for me is Illinois a stop he truly covets and does he plan to stick around for more than 3 years? I actually tend to believe he is a solid coach and above average recruiter but the sample size on him at each stop is so limited. We have seen him do pretty well in short stents but what is a 5-10-15 year Cuonzo program's real trajectory?

Thoughts? I ask because he is a candidate that provides me with some legitimate intrigue.

That's my problem too. You don't see the 3-4 and five years where he's really got them rolling or not.

Illiniguy13 · Mar 14, 2017

UICFLAMES said:
No, I mean like a Lovie move, MW would not be the only home run. I am not sure what a home run would be, but I dont think we are going over the ceiling I listed.

If we want to be duke, kansas, kentucky, we should be hiring established coaches, then filling the bench with st louis, indy, and chicago recruiters, that is what they do.

But that is big bucks, not only for head guy, but for assistants as well, as well as an acceptance of not following the rules to a T.

I am not sure Martin is a better candidate than Groce was five years ago, Groce was coming off a 16 run, martin just missed the tourney, and is a retread twice over if he comes here. I can see an argument that he has high major experience, but bad high major experience is not much better.

Just because a "lovie move" isn't going down doesn't mean we won't see a home run hire. Having that kind of standard for Whitman is ridiculous, anyways. As for the bolded --- #1, read the thread and you'll have an idea what a home run hire would look like. #2 Let's not get ahead of ourselves, and #3 34-30 in the MAC.

mattcoldagelli · Mar 14, 2017

Illiniguy13 said:
Just because a "lovie move" isn't going down doesn't mean we won't see a home run hire.

"Lovie move" is rapidly climbing the charts of dumb Illinois message board lore. Before long, it'll have "he's willing to walk on so we can make the schollies work" in its sights.

Second and Chalmers · Mar 14, 2017

Illinifanforlife said:
I must admit. When I first heard of Keatts I wasn't too thrilled. But then I looked at his resume and what he turned around, it was very impressive. Plus Rick Petino was very high on him. I don't think Archie or Marshall are that realistic IMO, so let's take a shot at Keatts. Is it risky? Sure. But comes great risk comes great reward, and I think he's legit. I'm new here btw. Love the discussion!

I'm always amazed by some of the usernames that are still available. Do you have any idea how many Simpsons and Seinfeld characters I tried?

FatGreg · Mar 14, 2017

UICFLAMES said:
If we want to be duke, kansas, kentucky, we should be hiring established coaches, then filling the bench with st louis, indy, and chicago recruiters, that is what they do.

But that is big bucks, not only for head guy, but for assistants as well, as well as an acceptance of not following the rules to a T.

I am not sure Martin is a better candidate than Groce was five years ago, Groce was coming off a 16 run, martin just missed the tourney, and is a retread twice over if he comes here. I can see an argument that he has high major experience, but bad high major experience is not much better.

I'm concerned about Martin's coaching and prefer other candidates, but you absolutely will not recruit the Chicago-St Louis-Indy triangle any better than a realistic hypothetical staff of Cuonzo, Tracy Webster, Wyking Jones, and Jamall Walker. That's a whole group of young, intelligent, charismatic, professional black men with deep basketball roots and tons of street cred.

Cuonzo is a legend as a player in the region and a has a rep as a solid human being who really cares about his kids. Wyking Jones was an ace recruiter for Louisville (not connected to the scandal), scored 1,000 points in college, and has acted in movies like The Wood and Brown Sugar. Jamall has been killing it in the STL metro. Webster is one of the nation's most highly regarded assistants and was an All-Big Ten player at Wisconsin. That group would clean up on the recruiting trail. CLEAN UP. That's why I'll be fine with it if Cuonzo gets the job.

FiveStar · Mar 14, 2017

Illinifanforlife said:
I must admit. When I first heard of Keatts I wasn't too thrilled. But then I looked at his resume and what he turned around, it was very impressive. Plus Rick Petino was very high on him. I don't think Archie or Marshall are that realistic IMO, so let's take a shot at Keatts. Is it risky? Sure. But comes great risk comes great reward, and I think he's legit. I'm new here btw. Love the discussion!

Seeing Pitinos quote about keatts having no weaknesses was an eye opener, and I already liked him. Pretty sure he's number one on my b list should we miss on Archie and my other A-listers who are just dream scenarios like Bennett and Sean Miller.

Second and Chalmers · Mar 14, 2017

FatGreg said:
I'm concerned about Martin's coaching and prefer other candidates, but you absolutely will not recruit the Chicago-St Louis-Indy trio any better than a realistic hypothetical staff of Cuonzo, Tracy Webster, Wyking Jones, and Jamall Walker. That's a whole group of young, intelligent, charismatic, professional black men with deep basketball roots and tons of street cred.

Yeah, but is there any gnarled old greaseboard curmudgeon in that group? You need that guy on your staff.

Webster would be a lock, but of the other two, I would think Tim O'Toole would be the other guy coming, with Walker taking Jones' spot. O'Toole has worked under Boeheim and Coach K and was a head coach in his own right for many years. That's your old head who has seen it all and can keep the trains running on time.

MadSeason · Mar 14, 2017

FatGreg said:
I'm concerned about Martin's coaching and prefer other candidates, but you absolutely will not recruit the Chicago-St Louis-Indy triangle any better than a realistic hypothetical staff of Cuonzo, Tracy Webster, Wyking Jones, and Jamall Walker. That's a whole group of young, intelligent, charismatic, professional black men with deep basketball roots and tons of street cred.

Cuonzo is a legend as a player in the region and a has a rep as a solid human being who really cares about his kids. Wyking Jones was an ace recruiter for Louisville (not connected to the scandal), scored 1,000 points in college, and has acted in movies like The Wood and Brown Sugar. Jamall has been killing it in the STL metro. Webster is one of the nation's most highly regarded assistants and was an All-Big Ten player at Wisconsin. That group would clean up on the recruiting trail. CLEAN UP. That's why I'll be fine with it if Cuonzo gets the job.

The point of your post still stands and I agree with everything you said but Wyking Jones may want to stay on west Coast if possible. He left Louisville to get back home.

Still it would be an impressive recruiting staff

Illwinsagain · Mar 14, 2017

RichardKeenesHair said:
How about if you never had to know about it? I think part of the qualification to be a great coach now is to manage these things so they don't spill over into something larger. As I said upthread, IMHO Bill Self is the perfect "cheater" - he pushes the envelope as far is it will go all with plausible deniability. I respect him for it

Honestly, I think he goes too far at KU. How he gets out of some of the things that we have heard about unscathed amazes me.

ReademandWeep · Mar 14, 2017

WARDFORTHREE said:
The "grey area" I was speaking of would only be on the front-end of the recruitment. So hypothetically, a player we will call Rerrick Dose's, brother and uncle say they will have him come here if we paid them all $90K, would you be ok doing that? I ask because those big recruitments we all get so frustrated with losing, need this to compete more often than not. So would you be ok paying someone to get them to come here?

No. Once you cross that line, there's no turning back.

Illiniguy13 · Mar 14, 2017

mattcoldagelli said:
"Lovie move" is rapidly climbing the charts of dumb Illinois message board lore. Before long, it'll have "he's willing to walk on so we can make the schollies work" in its sights.

Spot on.