skyIdub
TSJ Thread
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IlliniKat91
- Chicago, IL
I'm gonna love hearing this part of the story, when/if you can tell it
Big Jack
- Decatur
Never was a problem in my book. Blame this all on Guenther.. Bill was a great person, coach and we should have made him the highest paid coach in CBB but alas someone at the top pissed it all away imho.... Whereever he goes and coaches will always be my #2 team... ILLThis may just remove any remaining heartburn in my body from him leaving.
As far as I'm concerned.........
If he's helping during this time, I'll be a huge supporter again. My frustration for him went away about 10 years ago(us winning recently really did it). If this is a bunk story,nor at least overblown, and he's going to help navigate it.....that's a #1 class act moving. Good that he and Brad have a great relationship.
Beat me to it. That clears the deck.This may just remove any remaining heartburn in my body from him leaving.
As far as I'm concerned.........
drsmitty74
- Rochester
Easy Jack, just saying heartburn. Not hate, anger...etc. I agree with all your points.
Ryllini
- Lombard
You can root for Kansas,but against Hunter.
Bill has been my second favorite coach for sometime. Ron Geunther refused to even renegotiate his contract, can't blame him for taking much more money and coaching at blue blood. He's been nothing but gracious towards our program, a close friend of Underwood and now he's going out of his way for TSJ. And like I said earlier the fact that a coach completely unrelated to the program feels so horrible about what happened that he's going out of his way to help, this should tell you everything you need to know about what's going on.
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Feel free to quote me, but always remember,
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made."
I’ve been a faithful beloved fan for 35 years. Was fairly connected to the program when Lou was here and that spilled into subsequent years when he left. I have known Self for quite some time, albeit not well. What I can say from my personal interactions with him is that he is sincere, charismatic, thoughtful, and actually a terrific guy. Yes, he has some basketball related things tagged to his program, but so have countless other coaches and programs. It seems that Illini Nation loves to make him out to be a bad guy because he divorced us for a blue blood. Factually, he elevated our program in a major way. Our AD didn’t “fight” to keep him, but reality is that he did have a better opportunity at a blue blood and over the past 20 years that decision certainly has played out well for him. We, as a fan base, love to throw shade on all others that have engaged in questionable things within their programs. Fact is, our history is that we’ve got some things in our past as well.
He has spoken in a positive way about his time at UIUC and has been a friend to the program.
If, in fact, he is leveraging his stature in KS to assist in this difficult time, one would think that should finally put an end to all the crap that Illini Nation wants to throw his way.
There was a previous post about something on radio that Bill Self is doing whatever we can to help..
TSJ Thread
JW explicitly said in the press conference that the panel can re-evaluate the decision any time new information becomes available. I did not watch and only read the summary, and this makes much more sense (talking in general re: process). But my questions remain as to process and what and how...
www.illinoisloyalty.com
Throw in the fact... we know this.
Tacomallini
- Washington State
he just might be able to weave his way back into Illini fans' hearts
I'll start with so many posts, apologies if this has already been covered. In regards to a person being charged, here are some basics that are followed everywhere. Police do not charge individuals (there is usually confusion created because the function of police and law enforcement is to investigate, write reports, take statements, collect evidence, etc. and then turn them over to the prosecutor. The prosecutor can be called a district attorney or as here in Illinois, a state's attorney. They are also commonly referred to as the "state".
In regards to charging a person the procedure is as follows:
There is a prosecutor assigned to review reports, statements, any other evidence turned into them. More often than not, that is more than enough to charge a person or to say no, I'm not going to charge a person unless I get more info (additional reports, evidence, etc.) There are times when someone comes in to ask for charges to be filed and that prosecutor faces the dilemma of telling someone there is not enough to file charges. There are also situations where a prosecutor may say to themselves, this is a weak case but I can't say no to the victim. There are several types of cases that could fall into this category and one is sexual assault cases. A more common one is a barroom fight. One guy loses the fight and is clearly injured but you have several witnesses at the bar that give conflicting accounts and most, if not all witnesses, including the victim, are intoxicated or at least have been drinking. In this scenario the prosecutor has to tell someone who is clearly injured that he sympathizes with them but there is just not enough to proceed. A lot of times if this happens and there are injuries you will see an individual sue someone in civil court since the burden is less and you can receive a monetary award. Hence the situation where someone is not charged or charged and not convicted but held liable in civil court.
Of course the easier route in situations as just described is to appease the person and file and see what shakes out in court. Yes, this happens.
As stated previously, there are two ways to proceed in regards to charging: grand jury or Preliminary Hearing. Grand jury's usually will convene for multiple days and the same jurors may serve for a month, coming in on numerous days. It's not for 30 consecutive days, prosecutors usually will wait until they have several matters to present. Of course, this is different from larger counties vs. smaller counties.
At a PH the state only needs to show probable cause exists to believe a felony was committed and it's in front of a judge (in Illinois misdemeanor's do not have PH's and I won't go into how they are charged and proceed).
Most PH's usually only take 10 to 15 mins. So, why would a prosecutor choose a grand jury? As stated before and most importantly the accused is not involved. No cross-examination of witnesses or presentation of their evidence. This is not so in a PH, so in a grand jury setting a prosecutor has the advantage and can control the procedure (although I've never seen a ham sandwich indicted.) Also, as previously pointed out, the defense does have the right to cross-exam and present evidence which is why you might hear of a PH lasting far longer than 10 to 15 mins. Defense attorneys can also use PH's as a way to garner evidence they might not see immediately or be able to make an evaluation of strength of case and believability of witnesses. Maybe leading down the path of trying to negotiate a resolution or if they believe there are grounds to file motions to limit evidence or dismiss on some technicality.
What I don't believe has been stated is sometimes prosecutors can use the grand jury for (HOWEVER, VERY RARE) to flush out a case which they, for whatever, reason don't believe should be charged. Remember, the prosecutor controls the presentation of evidence to the grand jury in a closed door environment. Again, this is rare but it has been done.
Putting all of this together, the type of alleged offense, the delay in charging, the barroom setting, maybe review of video, if any, and social media exchanges, might be why this was delayed. In other words, and I know this prosecutor has had her issues or may have an ax to grind or seeking publicity, but she obviously was not confident enough (for whatever reason) not to seek charges immediately and wait until early December.
If this is true it is my hope the Student Conduct Panel may very well proceed the same way. ie. "we just don't have enough to suspend. We are going to wait until more evidence comes to light, whenever that might be.
Damn, I hope this doesn't confuse matters.
In regards to charging a person the procedure is as follows:
There is a prosecutor assigned to review reports, statements, any other evidence turned into them. More often than not, that is more than enough to charge a person or to say no, I'm not going to charge a person unless I get more info (additional reports, evidence, etc.) There are times when someone comes in to ask for charges to be filed and that prosecutor faces the dilemma of telling someone there is not enough to file charges. There are also situations where a prosecutor may say to themselves, this is a weak case but I can't say no to the victim. There are several types of cases that could fall into this category and one is sexual assault cases. A more common one is a barroom fight. One guy loses the fight and is clearly injured but you have several witnesses at the bar that give conflicting accounts and most, if not all witnesses, including the victim, are intoxicated or at least have been drinking. In this scenario the prosecutor has to tell someone who is clearly injured that he sympathizes with them but there is just not enough to proceed. A lot of times if this happens and there are injuries you will see an individual sue someone in civil court since the burden is less and you can receive a monetary award. Hence the situation where someone is not charged or charged and not convicted but held liable in civil court.
Of course the easier route in situations as just described is to appease the person and file and see what shakes out in court. Yes, this happens.
As stated previously, there are two ways to proceed in regards to charging: grand jury or Preliminary Hearing. Grand jury's usually will convene for multiple days and the same jurors may serve for a month, coming in on numerous days. It's not for 30 consecutive days, prosecutors usually will wait until they have several matters to present. Of course, this is different from larger counties vs. smaller counties.
At a PH the state only needs to show probable cause exists to believe a felony was committed and it's in front of a judge (in Illinois misdemeanor's do not have PH's and I won't go into how they are charged and proceed).
Most PH's usually only take 10 to 15 mins. So, why would a prosecutor choose a grand jury? As stated before and most importantly the accused is not involved. No cross-examination of witnesses or presentation of their evidence. This is not so in a PH, so in a grand jury setting a prosecutor has the advantage and can control the procedure (although I've never seen a ham sandwich indicted.) Also, as previously pointed out, the defense does have the right to cross-exam and present evidence which is why you might hear of a PH lasting far longer than 10 to 15 mins. Defense attorneys can also use PH's as a way to garner evidence they might not see immediately or be able to make an evaluation of strength of case and believability of witnesses. Maybe leading down the path of trying to negotiate a resolution or if they believe there are grounds to file motions to limit evidence or dismiss on some technicality.
What I don't believe has been stated is sometimes prosecutors can use the grand jury for (HOWEVER, VERY RARE) to flush out a case which they, for whatever, reason don't believe should be charged. Remember, the prosecutor controls the presentation of evidence to the grand jury in a closed door environment. Again, this is rare but it has been done.
Putting all of this together, the type of alleged offense, the delay in charging, the barroom setting, maybe review of video, if any, and social media exchanges, might be why this was delayed. In other words, and I know this prosecutor has had her issues or may have an ax to grind or seeking publicity, but she obviously was not confident enough (for whatever reason) not to seek charges immediately and wait until early December.
If this is true it is my hope the Student Conduct Panel may very well proceed the same way. ie. "we just don't have enough to suspend. We are going to wait until more evidence comes to light, whenever that might be.
Damn, I hope this doesn't confuse matters.
Here is my second-hand inside info -- the same alleged victim has also made a prior rape allegation against a KU basketball player, and the allegation was not believed by the KU program after investigation.
Bill Self and Underwood are also very good friends.
If he doesn't get this mess straightened out for us there'll be hell toupee.
Ryllini
- Lombard
I’m trying to be as respectful and sensitive as I can, but this whole slipping digits in a crowded bar turns into rape has always been a little fishy.
Kansas was his dream job and the Big 12 was where he wanted to be. Blame Guenther for other things but he was gone once KU offered. He appeared torn to leave and had success at Illinois, but KU was his #1 choice.
Self recruited well at Illinois but also lost recruits that he led once Kentucky and Duke got involved. At KU this would be less of an issue.
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
What makes me happy in all of this is that even if TSJ is unable to play this season (and I hope he does!), it sounds like he has some connected people in his corner to vouch for his character, which would bode well for him in still having a shot to play at the next level.
For us, it’s a game. For him, it’s his livelihood.
For us, it’s a game. For him, it’s his livelihood.
Fishy? LOL intentional or not that was pretty good
I know insiders won’t say how Self helped
My guess is he has connections to the police department which allowed some information to pass to our athletic department. I would also guess this is basic information but wasn’t being shared
With that info the panel could possibly make a decision
Again this is a pure guess and if I am off base please correct
My guess is he has connections to the police department which allowed some information to pass to our athletic department. I would also guess this is basic information but wasn’t being shared
With that info the panel could possibly make a decision
Again this is a pure guess and if I am off base please correct
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