TSJ Thread

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#126      
Wow! I know some on here are deeply concered about what a beat writer might say or angry opposing fan bases but the university could open itself to a huge bage of worms if TSJ doesn't play.

What is the liability if he plays? None that I can see. Much more liability if he doesn't. Unless I'm missing something here?
 
#127      
my cousin vinny GIF by 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment
martin scorsese goodfellas GIF
 
#129      
I don’t agree with #2. Geoff didnt make that suggestion as a friend. He’s in a position of power and by default an extension of the university.
Even reading Shannon's argument about title ix seemed like a stretch legally speaking. I havent read the u of is brief but consider the following

OFF-CAMPUS CONDUCT​

Under Title IX’s existing statutory and regulatory definition of “program or activity” and the language added under § 106.44(a) of the new rules, a recipient’s Title IX obligations will clearly apply to all incidents of “sexual harassment” of which the recipient has “actual knowledge” (as both quoted terms are defined in § 106.30) occurring on its campus. Responding to expressed concerns about ambiguities over what constitutes an “education program or activity” pertaining to off-campus conduct, the Department has confirmed that a recipient’s Title IX obligations extend to off-campus sexual harassment incidents if any of three conditions are met:

  • the off-campus incident occurs as part of the recipient’s “operations” pursuant to 20 U.S.C. § 1687 and 34 CFR 106.2(h);
  • the recipient exercised substantial control over the respondent and the context of the alleged sexual harassment that occurred off-campus; or
  • the incident of sexual harassment occurs at an off-campus building owned or controlled by a student organization recognized by a postsecondary institution.
Id. at 30196-97.

Imo none of those 3 exist here.
 
#131      
Obviously not a lawyer, but I would think case precedent would be the 1st thing they'd look.

Interesting they filed this just now, right before the TRO hearing.

Wanted to give as little time as possible to prepare arguments against it? (this is also why I feel the DA still has some evidence/discovery tucked away in her back pocket)
 
#132      

Krombopulos_Michael

Aurora, Illinois (that’s a suburb of Chicago)
If charges were dropped tomorrow, there’d be at least one poster here nervous about the immaculate University of Illinois letting a player who WAS charged on the court, even if the charges were dropped.
If the charges were dropped I’d argue nobody should be nervous - due process would’ve played out regardless of what anyone outside thinks. It is reasonable however for people to be nervous as we don’t even know what we don’t know here and the only concrete thing playing out is a swift and arduous defense by the university of their policy. This is all with the background of me hoping beyond hope that he is cleared in this and can return to finish the season.
 
#133      
Obviously not a lawyer, but I would think case precedent would be the 1st thing they'd look.

Interesting they filed this just now, right before the TRO hearing.
The panel/university better start considering allowing the kid to play. The liability rests on NOT allowing him to play.

Honest question, what is the liability of letting him play other then overly-emotional journalists who react to headlines? Some torch and pitchfork ideologues making noise? This will all fade pretty quick. Our society's attention span is very limited.
 
#134      
Wow! I know some on here are deeply concered about what a beat writer might say or angry opposing fan bases but the university could open itself to a huge bage of worms if TSJ doesn't play.

What is the liability if he plays? None that I can see. Much more liability if he doesn't. Unless I'm missing something here?

I haven't seen anything so far that would indicate that the University would be liable for any type of damages here.
 
#135      
Gary Parrish just laid some national media tracks for shaming BU if he plays Shannon in the case that a TRO is granted and the case is still pending.
Oh Gary. I used to listen to his local radio show here in Memphis every day on the way home from work, but he just continued to get more and more policitally slanted and I couldn’t take it.

He has flashes of brilliance and flashes of missing brain syndrome.
 
#136      
Wanted to give as little time as possible to prepare arguments against it? (this is also why I feel the DA still has some evidence/discovery tucked away in her back pocket)
I think that is all but assured. Who knows how strong of evidence it would be, but it is my understanding that at this point she just needs enough to get over the probable cause standard, and likely wouldn't release anymore than what she thought was necessary.

LARGE CAVEAT - I am not a criminal attorney.
 
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#139      
Gonna be honest guys, shaming by the media is not what we need to worry about if Shannon plays with a felony rape trial looming. This is an extremely dangerous situation for the university and frankly college athletics. If players are able to TRO on their own university for sitting them while actually have charges of felonies, precedents are being set. Let alone if he is found guilty. Underwood could be a victim of all this. I am extremely nervous for the outcome of this and I have not seen anywhere actual evidence that TSJ is not guilty. Caution, caution, caution....He is also my favorite player on the team and I want him to be innocent and have a long NBA career, as a program that is the best outcome. The risk of playing a person that is ultimately found guilty of any level of sexual assault just to get some wins is too much for me.
My problem is. The university policy is pointless if he wins his battle. He will file a lawsuit and win even if the university wins the tro case. What's it worth to lose. If you lose 100 million it was not worth the suspension. The policy could be much better and involve an investigation. These types of incidents don't typically happen one time. It's a behavior.
 
#141      
I haven't seen anything so far that would indicate that the University would be liable for any type of damages here.
Because the entire basis for seeking injunctive relief is that legal damages are an inadequate remedy. Making such an argument at this point would be leading with their chin. But to be sure, there will be a claim for damages made down the road, very likely irrespective of how this turns out.
 
#142      
Imo none of those 3 exist here.

Agree they don’t exist. In my view the University had no legal obligations to do anything about the case. It was a criminal charge in Kansas and up to the Kansas courts. However, once the University applied their policy, by imposing the suspension, don’t they take on the obligation to do it fairly via title ix? Obviously I’m not a lawyer….
 
#144      
Because the entire basis for seeking injunctive relief is that legal damages are an inadequate remedy. Making such an argument at this point would be leading with their chin. But to be sure, there will be a claim for damages made down the road, very likely irrespective of how this turns out.
I too feel like TSJ lawyer will come after the university hard once his name is cleared.

Smart money is on TSJ clearing his name.

So the univeristy must choose between a potential multimillion dollar lawsuit or yielding to rabid ideologues.

Outside of even being a huge fan of the men's basketball team, I know what I would do.
 
#145      
I too feel like TSJ lawyer will come after the university hard once his name is cleared.

Smart money is on TSJ clearing his name.

So the univeristy much choose between a potential multimillion dollar lawsuit or yielding to rabid ideologues.

Outside of even being a huge fan of the men's basketball team, I know what I would do.
Of the involved parties, the UofI is the deepest pocket that might possibly settle or lose in court. Under the hypothesis that TSJr suffered damages, it is unlikely that the accuser has money to pay those damages, and good luck suing the DA. But the UofI is the most likely source for recovering what he may have lost.
 
#146      

Krombopulos_Michael

Aurora, Illinois (that’s a suburb of Chicago)
I too feel like TSJ lawyer will come after the university hard once his name is cleared.

Smart money is on TSJ clearing his name.

So the univeristy must choose between a potential multimillion dollar lawsuit or yielding to rabid ideologues.

Outside of even being a huge fan of the men's basketball team, I know what I would do.

I don’t see a path of him winning if this suit was tossed out and Cephus was both expelled and kicked off the team.

EDIT: Incorrectly linked to a lawsuit by the accuser against Wisconsin - Cephus’ lawsuit was partially dismissed in 2022. Mistake on my part.
 
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#147      
Crappy cases go to trial every day. I've seen some where the jury deliberates less than 30 mins. One was 10 minutes which means they walked into the jury room, took a quick vote, signed the guilty or not guilty form, grabbed their personal belongings and walked back into court. Cases are not dismissed by a judge just because the evidence is lacking (that possibility is only at the PH stage with the prosecutor unable to get over the low hurdle of probable cause).
Cases are dismissed for a wide variety of reasons (virtually always on the prosecutor's motion) but not because the case is a piece of crap. If the prosecutor (and the victim) wish to proceed on a bad case and have a jury turnaround in 10 mins with a verdict they can do so.
I was on one where we deliberated 15 minutes at most. Not guilty. At least on what we heard in court, I have no idea why any of us were there.
 
#148      
Change my word “allegation” to “DA’s charge,” and nothing else would change. The DA DOES have to do all of the heavy lifting. If she walks into that courtroom with nothing but what’s been released so far, TSJ’s defense indeed could just sit back and let that crappy evidence (not) speak for itself … because as of now, there isn’t actually evidence of anything as far as I can tell.

Without all this dancing around, it appears you’re saying being charged with something implies at least something in and of itself as far as allowing him to play. I disagree (as in I don’t support that outlook), and I think the DIA should look at each case individually and decide if it will allow an athlete to play based on what the details available are … I think these details look incredibly weak.
you making my point, we literally don't know anything about the evidence, just the charges. I actually think you don't understand the legal system. they don't make evidence public knowledge, we are not the ones trying this case. IF this goes to trial TSJ has a very f-ing serious situation on his hands.

I'm not saying being charged implies anything except that have been charged by DA. Maybe you have history with this maybe not, but its not a walk in the park. If TSJ is innocent he needs to beat the charge. In cases of rape, literally, the victim testimony is massive particularly if backed by witnesses. I've read loads of crap on this board and stayed quiet for a good bit but there are serious ripples of this and it very much appears to me that people are downplaying the severity of all of this because want him to suit up against Maryland.

and despite what you think I very much want TSJ to be innocent and play the remainder of the season.
 
#149      
A scenario that is little discussed is

-TSJ is reinstated
-UofI catch some heat
-TSJ gets drafted
-TSJ beats the charges
-UofI and TSJ come out blooming like a lotus out of the swamp
-Maybe even get a fluff piece or two written about us and the CPL sings our praises
 
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