2016 White Sox

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#426      
Bailey
bobbob said:
That seems very reasonable. Call Eaton your Rizzo and try to mimic the Cubs rebuild. I'd keep Q this year and then decide next offseason if the team will be ready in '20 - if yes, keep him; if no, trade him.

Would the fans have the patience for a full teardown? On one hand, frustrating when the Cubs are good, on the other, the Cubs are good because they did that.
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It's what I'm all-in on. We've been so bereft of prospects the last 10 years that I'd love to watch some young players develop. We've already got some nice pieces that we know aren't going anywhere to keep things entertaining - Rodon, Anderson....Collins, Fisher, Burdi further down the line. I'm also excited to see Charlie Tilson get a crack at full time duties in center next year. Narvaez too.

It'll be nice to go into a season without the grand illusions about contending with a roster of ill-fitting pieces. Take your time, get it right.
 
#427      
IntenselyOrange
Bailey said:
It's what I'm all-in on. We've been so bereft of prospects the last 10 years that I'd love to watch some young players develop. We've already got some nice pieces that we know aren't going anywhere to keep things entertaining - Rodon, Anderson....Collins, Fisher, Burdi further down the line. I'm also excited to see Charlie Tilson get a crack at full time duties in center next year. Narvaez too.

It'll be nice to go into a season without the grand illusions about contending with a roster of ill-fitting pieces. Take your time, get it right.
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Last offseason there were players available that made buying a good option. The White Sox half-a$$ed it and therefore could not compete. This year, there is no one available that can dramatically shift our fortunes. Trades are the only options. Unfortunately, we do not have the necessary assets to improve our team by trades. Therefore a "Fire-Sale" is the only road to competitiveness.
 
#428      
ILL in IA
I don't like to compare what the cubs did to what the sox should do. Different teams, different people running things. BUT, with them being in the same city and the success the cubs are having, its easy to do. That said, I think the Sox are in a much better spot than the Cubs were when they went into rebuild mode. I don't think it would take 3-4 years of 100 loses to get good again. Sale and Q can bring back a lot of major league ready/close to ready players. I think Sale alone could bring back 2-3 guys who can play in the big leagues at some point in 2017. I honestly think with Eaton, Anderson, Rondon, Fulmer, Burdi and Collins in the mix, the Sox can be competing again in 2019. I would 100% trade a bad 17 and 18 for a roster that's locked up, young, and competitive for many years to come.
 
#429      
Bailey
ILL in IA said:
I don't like to compare what the cubs did to what the sox should do. Different teams, different people running things. BUT, with them being in the same city and the success the cubs are having, its easy to do. That said, I think the Sox are in a much better spot than the Cubs were when they went into rebuild mode. I don't think it would take 3-4 years of 100 loses to get good again. Sale and Q can bring back a lot of major league ready/close to ready players. I think Sale alone could bring back 2-3 guys who can play in the big leagues at some point in 2017. I honestly think with Eaton, Anderson, Rondon, Fulmer, Burdi and Collins in the mix, the Sox can be competing again in 2019. I would 100% trade a bad 17 and 18 for a roster that's locked up, young, and competitive for many years to come.
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Not that I necessarily disagree with you regarding the components of a rebuild, but the only way the Cubs are relevant to our rebuild is if we trade them something.

The Cubs' success has zero bearing on the White Sox.
 
#430      
ILL in IA
Bailey said:
Not that I necessarily disagree with you regarding the components of a rebuild, but the only way the Cubs are relevant to our rebuild is if we trade them something.

The Cubs' success has zero bearing on the White Sox.
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I agree. I don't think any decision should be made based off of what the cubs are doing. I simply referenced the team on the north side as a way to potentially judge a timeline on what sox fans could be looking at. Part of the argument I hear against the tear down is if fans will put up with being bad for 4 or 5 years. I don't think it will take that long. The cubs went from hiring Theo, tearing everything apart, to holding a parade in 5 years. Comparing where they were then, to where we are now, I think we could get better sooner. All of that will still depend on the evaluation of talent, how they preform, and staying healthy.
 
#431      
zoggle101
Add McCutchen and some long relief guys and we're contenders for the central. Eaton, McCutchen, Tilson with Garcia platooning in right as needed and DH'n. McCuthen can DH too. Abreau gets on track all season, our young middle infield thrive, Frazier whacks 30 and drives in a 100. We make a trade for a catcher or bat if we're in contention. I cnq t see giving up on a team with Sale and Q as the 1,2 punch.
 
#432      
IntenselyOrange
zoggle101 said:
Add McCutchen and some long relief guys and we're contenders for the central. Eaton, McCutchen, Tilson with Garcia platooning in right as needed and DH'n. McCuthen can DH too. Abreau gets on track all season, our young middle infield thrive, Frazier whacks 30 and drives in a 100. We make a trade for a catcher or bat if we're in contention. I cnq t see giving up on a team with Sale and Q as the 1,2 punch.
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On it's face, I agree that it seems ridiculous to give up on a team with Sale and Q at the top of the rotation. The top of our rotation could be a postseason nightmare for our opponents, especially if Rodon improves as he did at the end of the season.

The problem is, that although we're well-constructed for the postseason sprint, we're not well-constructed for the 162 game marathon. I don't think McCutchen fixes that and I don't think Abreu is good enough to anchor a lineup. I know he's had success, but when I look at his bat speed, I think he is what he hit last year. He'll be streaky, but that's typical of any player who is good but not elite.

McCutchen is an interesting case. He might be done. He might have had a down year. I can see an argument for getting him, but I think he's < 50/50 to ever be an All-Star caliber player again. Also, I think he needs to play a corner OF at this point in his career.

The problem becomes, even if we upgrade with McCutchen, Wieters (or whatever C you want), and some bullpen arms, we still need everything to break our way. Abreu would need to be a top 1B. Frazier would need to rebound. McCutchen would need last year to be an aberration. Jones would need to stay elite in the pen. Rodon would need to show improvement. And everyone would need to stay healthy because we have nothing in our system.

Now, last night's results notwithstanding, typically if you need everything to break your way perfectly in order to win, you are going to be on the losing end. That is where the Sox are likely to be next year.
 
#433      
South Farms
Hahn says it is looking like a total rebuild is necessary.

look for Sale to be traded
 
#434      
ILL in IA
I knew we wouldn't be the only team selling in the league, but I didn't see another team in the division selling off guys as well. Sale and Q still more attractive for teams compared to Verlander. But not missing out might speed up the process.
 
#436      
Branson53
You guys are on this board, I'm sure some of you have seen this from Southside Sox.

http://www.southsidesox.com/2016/11/2/13468620/assessing-the-strength-of-the-white-sox-core

I think that analysis points directly at our problem and that a rebuild is the right option. Yes, our top 4 guys are good/great players with excellent contracts in terms of control and value. However, there is such a sharp drop-off after the top four that we would almost have to sign a whole team to be competitive. Our farm system, while getting better after this year's draft, is still not anywhere close to where it needs to be in order for self-sustained success.

Our top 4 guys have so much potential value we'll almost have an unprecedented opportunity, along with the weak free agent market this offseason, to jump start our "rebuild" and build depth throughout our system.
 
#437      
ILL in IA
Branson53 said:
You guys are on this board, I'm sure some of you have seen this from Southside Sox.

http://www.southsidesox.com/2016/11/2/13468620/assessing-the-strength-of-the-white-sox-core

I think that analysis points directly at our problem and that a rebuild is the right option. Yes, our top 4 guys are good/great players with excellent contracts in terms of control and value. However, there is such a sharp drop-off after the top four that we would almost have to sign a whole team to be competitive. Our farm system, while getting better after this year's draft, is still not anywhere close to where it needs to be in order for self-sustained success.

Our top 4 guys have so much potential value we'll almost have an unprecedented opportunity, along with the weak free agent market this offseason, to jump start our "rebuild" and build depth throughout our system.
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If they trade the top 4 or so guys, it wont matter who you go out and sign. The team is ok not being competitive for the next 2 years. And if that's the case, I see them signing a bunch of guys to 1 or 2 year deals, that front office hopes you get a good year from, and can possibly trade at the deadline as well. 2 bad years means 2 more high draft picks to work into the system.
 
#439      
ILL in IA
Be curious to hear what other people would like to get back or if you have any prospects on other teams you hope to see worked into a deal.


I really would like to see them get Benintendi from Boston.


I know he had a up and down year, but I would be curious if the sox could get Conforto away from the Mets.
 
#440      
Bailey
ILL in IA said:
Be curious to hear what other people would like to get back or if you have any prospects on other teams you hope to see worked into a deal.


I really would like to see them get Benintendi from Boston.


I know he had a up and down year, but I would be curious if the sox could get Conforto away from the Mets.
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Nats checking in on Sale today. For me, that conversation would need to begin and end with Trea Turner.
 
#441      
champaignchris
Bailey said:
Nats checking in on Sale today. For me, that conversation would need to begin and end with Trea Turner.
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I don't think you'd get too far with the Nats on that one. Not that it wouldn't be a fair trade in the abstract. Just that the Nats are trying to compete for a WS next year and they're not going to fill a hole in their roster by creating another hole in their roster that they can't fill. Trea Turner is indispensable to their plans going forward.

I think a trade with the Nats for Sale or Quintana would start with both of Lucas Giolito and Victor Robles plus probably three more of their top prospects.

ETA - I don't think the Nats match up with the Sox very well in a trade for Sale or Quintana.
 
#442      
Bailey
Lots of chatter on twitter regarding the Dodgers sniffing around Sale AND Frazier.
 
#443      
Branson53
ILL in IA said:
If they trade the top 4 or so guys, it wont matter who you go out and sign. The team is ok not being competitive for the next 2 years. And if that's the case, I see them signing a bunch of guys to 1 or 2 year deals, that front office hopes you get a good year from, and can possibly trade at the deadline as well. 2 bad years means 2 more high draft picks to work into the system.
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Yes, I agree with you. The point I was trying to make was just that the rebuild is the right way to go. Our top 4 guys and the control we have might make it seem like going for it is the right option. But when you look deeper in the depth chart they most likely aren't one or two big pieces away from competing. It would take much more.
 
#444      
ILL in IA
champaignchris said:
I don't think you'd get too far with the Nats on that one. Not that it wouldn't be a fair trade in the abstract. Just that the Nats are trying to compete for a WS next year and they're not going to fill a hole in their roster by creating another hole in their roster that they can't fill. Trea Turner is indispensable to their plans going forward.

I think a trade with the Nats for Sale or Quintana would start with both of Lucas Giolito and Victor Robles plus probably three more of their top prospects.

ETA - I don't think the Nats match up with the Sox very well in a trade for Sale or Quintana.
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I agree Turner is a huge piece of the Nats plans going forward. Every player the Sox get back for Sale would be a big plan for that organization. But I will disagree that trading away Turner creates a hole the Nats can't fill in the short term to win a world series now. He played 40+ game in center and close to the same amount at 2B. I think quite a few players could fill that role well for the Nats through free agency or trade and improve a great deal with Sale as the teams #2 starter.
 
#445      
Illiniwek06
The Braves have also inquired about the Rays’ Chris Archer and Athletics’ Sonny Gray, but Sale is their focus, a person familiar with the situation said.

The price for Sale could be enormous, likely a package including multiple top prospects. The Braves have said they’re not at a point in their rebuild where they’re ready to trade top prospects to fill in gaps, but to get an ace they seem at least willing to consider changing that plan.
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http://www.ajc.com/sports/baseball/...continue-pursuit-sale/qDzPpO5zy0ZSbngiuha8WL/
 
#446      
champaignchris
The Braves are having a weird off-season so far. They're acting like they think they're a lot closer to competing than most people outside their organization think they are.

If you can get Dansby Swanson and Ozzie Albies plus a couple more prospects, the White Sox should jump on it. That's the middle of your infield for the next 7-8 years.
 
#450      
Bailey
Serious Late said:
Lot's of chatter around Sale to the Nationals. Top 2 prospects Giolito and Robles would be centerpiece of package going back, along with some lower level prospects.

Thoughts?
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Sounds like there's zero chance on Trea Turner being involed in this deal, so I'm, a bit bummed. Fingers crossed the SS they drafted 1st round last year or their young catcher is included, because I have my concerns about Giolito/Robles.
 
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