I did that Google search when he was hired and said he was going to fail like a dropped plate of lasagna.
2019-20 Coaching Discussion/Carousel
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I did that Google search when he was hired and said he was going to fail like a dropped plate of lasagna.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
I'd love to hear your thoughts. This is a safe space (for us to yell at each other and call each other idiots, which is FUN)
Zook brought Disch (his eventual DC in 2007) and Locksley. Those are two pretty big ones, though I was surprised to see it was so few people. However, a key difference is that he was fired from his job. Beckman wasn’t. Also, not to split hairs too much, but Zook brought Gilmore in before 2009. Gilmore was able to stay on, but only did so for one year.
BZuppke
- Plainfield
I’ve not been a fan of any football hire since Mike White. That being said, the Mackovic, Turner and Beckman (yes him too) were considered good hires by outside observers. I remember espn saying that Beckman with his Urban Meyer connection was an underrated hire.
That being said, I don’t know how he got through the interview. The guy is goofy and the lasagna/weenies shtick was just weird.
That being said, I don’t know how he got through the interview. The guy is goofy and the lasagna/weenies shtick was just weird.
Illinifan533
- Normal, Illinois
With the possibility of Michigan opening up, the idea that Illinois will have to contend with higher-profile programs for their preferred candidates should be broached. The 2011-12 hiring season brought us Beckman partially because MT's preferred candidate in Sumlin turned him down for the TAMU position, and I believe the carousel in general was full of jobs considered better than Illinois. Right now, besides Michigan, the only other high-profile positions that I believe may open up are USC and Florida State. I believe both of the latter schools would be highly interested in an Air Raid coach like Littrell.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Well, it took a bit more digging than that. A quick google search would have revealed that Beckman's resume was outstanding and that his last Toledo team was better than their record indicated, they were ranked 17th in the country per F/+.
What I did find at the time, which worried me, was the story of Beckman failing to use his timeouts to save clock as Northern Illinois drove in for the winning touchdown in a 63-60 MACtion thriller, and then looking like the guy we would all come to know in trying and failing to justify his reasoning to the press afterward.
Youtube and social media were younger then, there wasn't a ton of video available of the guy, so he came off to me as more meatball than moron. But regardless, the case against Beckman was totally about him as a personality. The resume was solid.
Yeah I met the guy briefly and saw him around his players a little bit. It's true what they said that he was better away from a cameras-rolling podium environment....but not THAT much better.
Ehh, people overstate the case in one direction, but I feel like this is overstating it in the other direction. Illinois had better, higher paying jobs to offer than the ones they took under Campbell.
The one thing that may have some truth to it is that Beckman might have viewed Campbell as the real star (there's no doubt he was Beckman's first choice as OC) and once he was off the board, Beckman wanted to re-make the offensive staff rather than put his/Campbell's Toledo guys around a new OC. Louis Ayeni (now RB coach and recruiting coordinator at Northwestern) and Jason Candle were two guys we clearly could have paid more than Toledo did. But did we actually try?
The other thing is, Beckman himself had a ton of trepidation about taking the Illinois job. He had cold feet. You wonder how much his staff were aware of and affected by that.
(And it's such a tragedy in retrospect. Pat Narduzzi wanted the job, was perfectly well-qualified to get it, Mike Thomas loved Narduzzi from when they were at Cincinnati together, but for some idiotic reason made up his mind that he had to have someone with head coaching experience. Thomas hired a coach he wasn't sure about, and the coach took a job he wasn't sure about, and Narduzzi dominated the conference for three more years before getting the Pitt job, where he's been fine, miles better than Beckman. Ugh.)
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Nearly everyone believed Zook and Weber should be fired. Revisionist thinking.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
We might have been better than we've been had we kept those guys. We also might not have. But not once in the decade since have I lost one minute's sleep wondering if we missed out on genuine, big-time success by letting those guys go. Zook had been found out, and Weber was never going to learn the lessons he needed to succeed (to the extent he has) without getting kicked out the door.
Lol was mostly just messing with you. Triple option is a very good offense just not my cup of tea. Dino would be my top choice if he was feasible. Then Graham Harrell/Seth Littrell, Luke Fickell, Bill Clark, Hugh freeze, Chip Long.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
On Bill Clark, what's your feeling on super southern-fried corn pone guys in Champaign? There's just something that gives me hesitation that that would be very, very fish out of water.
Bill Self had some of that, but Self was a consummate performer, and that was part of the act that he turned up or down on command. Bill Clark is not that.
I think you underestimate how southern central Illinois is or can be. (BTW, born and raised there).
Yeah I get that don’t know how he would do here. Wouldn’t be in my top 3 or 4 but I like what he has done at UAB.
TMC999
- Not Iowa
Any audible sound coming out of him should have been plenty. #goof
SampsonRelpenk
- Edwardsville, IL
Yep. I would walk through miles of broken glass for us to go 20-12 in conference over four years. I never knew Beckman himself had such mixed feelings about the job. In a weird way I respect him a little more now. That means he knew his own limitations in being able to handle that level of football, or was keen to the unique structural issues in winning consistently at Illinois. Either way that speaks to a level of self-awareness and 200-level critical thinking I wouldn't have guessed he had.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Anybody else watching Memphis-Navy? Triple Option 20, Mike Norvell 7
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Hot seat school/coaches from the power 5
Likely Gone
1. Rutgers/Ash 8-31 (3-25 in B1G) in year 4. nuff said
2. Illinois/Lovie 11-29 (4-24 in B1G) in year 4. You know alot about this situation. Buyout 4 million after this year (that's a bargain). Good Job on that buyout.
3. Vandy/Mason 24-41 (9-33 SEC) in year 6. I dunno what his buyout is as he's at a private school but he's been there a while, and it hasn't been good. He might only win 2-4 games this year.
4. USC/Helton 35-18 (27-10 PAC 12) in year 5. He started off great but last year was a disappointment. Might have righted the ship but toughest part of schedule yet to come with backup qbs but if Urban Meyer wants to come it will it matter? Also will have a new A.D. and an 18 million dollar buy out
5. Ole miss/Luke 13-15 (5-12) in year 3. Might only win 4-5 games this year. They have a tough rest of season schedule and his A.D. is not the one that hired him. His buy is cheap at 6.5 million.
Maybe (50/50)
6. Arkansas/Morris 4-12 (0-9 SEC) in year 2. He has not won a SEC game yet and has a bad lose under his belt this year. He is staring a 3-4 win season in the face again. His buyout is 9 mil if fired after this year. They still have to pay 3.84 million to Bielema next year. If they wait a year they won't have to be paying 3 coaches salaries/buyouts at one time.
7. UT/Pruitt 6-10 (2-7 in SEC) in year 2. His seat is warm but unlikely to get fired. If they fire him this winter they would owe over 9 million left on contract and they are still paying Butch Jones 2.4 million a year until feb 2021.
8. South Carolina/Muschamp 23-20 (12-14 SEC) in year 4. He's off to a bad start this year with a very tough schedule the rest of the way. He's been ok but will he be able to survive a 4 or 5 win season in year 4? He's has a huuuuge buyout of 22.05 million if fired before Jan 1 and 18.75 million if after. That makes it hard to fire him this year.
9. FSU/Taggart 7-9 (4-6 in ACC) in year 2. His seat is super HOOOT because of sky high expectations but i don't think FSU can afford to pay his 17 million dollar buyout, while only in year 2.
Likely Safe
10. UCLA/Kelly 4-12 (4-6 in PAC 12) in year 2. His seat is warm and he is unlikely to win more than 4 games again this year but his buy out is large (9 million) and due within a year of his firing in monthly installments if he is fired before year 4. They still owe Mora 3 mil a year thru 2021 That would be a large pill to swallow. I think he's unlikely to get the hook.
11. VT/Fuente 27-16 (15-10 in ACC) in year 4 I don't think he will be fired unless he only wins 4 or 5 games. Team has underwelmed this year and won less each year he's been there.
12. Auburn/Malzahn not going to list record here as I think it's unlikely as he's off to a really good start. Auburn Fans are crazy though.
13. Michigan/Harbaugh see Auburn
Thoughts....It's kinda crazy to think that Illinois is in such a good situation. They have a tiny buyout when compared to the other coaches and they are not paying former coaches buyouts.
Of the likely job openings I'd rank them like this
1. USC
2. Ole Miss
3. Illinois
4. Vandy
5. Rutgers
If these are the Jobs that are open it seems like Illinois maybe able to get a top 2-3 coach this year, unless programs are willing to pay huge buyouts or multiple fired coaches early in their coaches tenure.
Ranking the Likely/maybe Job openings
1. USC
2. FSU
3. South Carolina
4. Ole Miss
5. Arkansas
6. Tennesse
7. Illinois
8. Vandy
9. Rutgers
I actually think illinois is closer to #5-6 than you think since we just upgraded our facilities, will likely be able to pay a better salary (they would be paying 3 coaches with bigger buyouts), and might have a tougher path to wins in the SEC.
Sorry for any typos beforehand.
Likely Gone
1. Rutgers/Ash 8-31 (3-25 in B1G) in year 4. nuff said
2. Illinois/Lovie 11-29 (4-24 in B1G) in year 4. You know alot about this situation. Buyout 4 million after this year (that's a bargain). Good Job on that buyout.
3. Vandy/Mason 24-41 (9-33 SEC) in year 6. I dunno what his buyout is as he's at a private school but he's been there a while, and it hasn't been good. He might only win 2-4 games this year.
4. USC/Helton 35-18 (27-10 PAC 12) in year 5. He started off great but last year was a disappointment. Might have righted the ship but toughest part of schedule yet to come with backup qbs but if Urban Meyer wants to come it will it matter? Also will have a new A.D. and an 18 million dollar buy out
5. Ole miss/Luke 13-15 (5-12) in year 3. Might only win 4-5 games this year. They have a tough rest of season schedule and his A.D. is not the one that hired him. His buy is cheap at 6.5 million.
Maybe (50/50)
6. Arkansas/Morris 4-12 (0-9 SEC) in year 2. He has not won a SEC game yet and has a bad lose under his belt this year. He is staring a 3-4 win season in the face again. His buyout is 9 mil if fired after this year. They still have to pay 3.84 million to Bielema next year. If they wait a year they won't have to be paying 3 coaches salaries/buyouts at one time.
7. UT/Pruitt 6-10 (2-7 in SEC) in year 2. His seat is warm but unlikely to get fired. If they fire him this winter they would owe over 9 million left on contract and they are still paying Butch Jones 2.4 million a year until feb 2021.
8. South Carolina/Muschamp 23-20 (12-14 SEC) in year 4. He's off to a bad start this year with a very tough schedule the rest of the way. He's been ok but will he be able to survive a 4 or 5 win season in year 4? He's has a huuuuge buyout of 22.05 million if fired before Jan 1 and 18.75 million if after. That makes it hard to fire him this year.
9. FSU/Taggart 7-9 (4-6 in ACC) in year 2. His seat is super HOOOT because of sky high expectations but i don't think FSU can afford to pay his 17 million dollar buyout, while only in year 2.
Likely Safe
10. UCLA/Kelly 4-12 (4-6 in PAC 12) in year 2. His seat is warm and he is unlikely to win more than 4 games again this year but his buy out is large (9 million) and due within a year of his firing in monthly installments if he is fired before year 4. They still owe Mora 3 mil a year thru 2021 That would be a large pill to swallow. I think he's unlikely to get the hook.
11. VT/Fuente 27-16 (15-10 in ACC) in year 4 I don't think he will be fired unless he only wins 4 or 5 games. Team has underwelmed this year and won less each year he's been there.
12. Auburn/Malzahn not going to list record here as I think it's unlikely as he's off to a really good start. Auburn Fans are crazy though.
13. Michigan/Harbaugh see Auburn
Thoughts....It's kinda crazy to think that Illinois is in such a good situation. They have a tiny buyout when compared to the other coaches and they are not paying former coaches buyouts.
Of the likely job openings I'd rank them like this
1. USC
2. Ole Miss
3. Illinois
4. Vandy
5. Rutgers
If these are the Jobs that are open it seems like Illinois maybe able to get a top 2-3 coach this year, unless programs are willing to pay huge buyouts or multiple fired coaches early in their coaches tenure.
Ranking the Likely/maybe Job openings
1. USC
2. FSU
3. South Carolina
4. Ole Miss
5. Arkansas
6. Tennesse
7. Illinois
8. Vandy
9. Rutgers
I actually think illinois is closer to #5-6 than you think since we just upgraded our facilities, will likely be able to pay a better salary (they would be paying 3 coaches with bigger buyouts), and might have a tougher path to wins in the SEC.
Sorry for any typos beforehand.
Deleted member 654622
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Deleted member 654622
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Argue small sample size and that would be a valid point. I went into with a biased negative opinion about the possibilities. Well I just made it worse honestly. I still keep the same opinion to this point, its the Jimmy's and Joes not the Xs and Os.
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I wouldn't read much into the analyst's comments in the first video. Commentating, particularly at the cfb level is so rife with buzz phrases and historical anecdotes that it mixes assumption in with reality.
I have heard just as many people say the triple option negates gaps in athletic ability as people say the best way to beat it is to have more athleticism at every assignment.
I also wouldn't compare the athletes service academies can get to what anOSU or even Illinois could get.
The GT comparison is more apt. As you mentioned, a lot has to do with the D. Monken's defenses have been pretty dang good.
I have heard just as many people say the triple option negates gaps in athletic ability as people say the best way to beat it is to have more athleticism at every assignment.
I also wouldn't compare the athletes service academies can get to what anOSU or even Illinois could get.
The GT comparison is more apt. As you mentioned, a lot has to do with the D. Monken's defenses have been pretty dang good.
Deleted member 654622
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The GT is where I was looking at what realistically IL could become under that system. And I just watched that one game, so not a GT expert, but I came away thinking they won because of their defense. The offense did just enough on their own and helped the defense stay fresh.
The more and more I get into it, I keep coming away with having no issues with our current O and D systems. It is more to do with the players execution. That is either the result of talent or teaching ability. We have both those negatives PLUS lacking the ability to make in game coaching decisions. Not a good combo
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ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Disagree with these. They like Mason a lot at Vandy, and are aware it's an impossible job. And Morris is probably a dead man walking at Arkansas, but they won't do it this year.
Illinois is nowhere near Tennessee, even in the state they've found themselves in.
I was once the conductor of the Babers hype train, going all the way back to EIU. So it's been a surprise to see how out of control it's gotten.
Babers is 20-21 at Syracuse, 10-15 in the ACC. He's also 58 years old. And he's gonna be the guy at FSU or Michigan? I can't see it.
The conflation of running the football with killing the clock obscures more than it reveals. We're a tempo offense under Rod Smith, especially at our best. The Paul Johnson school generally intentionally plays as slow as possible.
Army was #1 nationally in time of possession last year by a country mile, over four minutes per game longer holding the ball than the next closest team. Illinois was 103rd.
It's a defense-friendly system. As I said earlier in the thread, it's from the ground up just a conceptually different theory of how to end 60 minutes of football with more points than your opponent.
Deleted member 654622
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I was looking at Babers records at Syracuse and was thinking the same thing. I didn't want to give him a quick ax this year just yet but they got TRUCKED by Maryland.
I don't disagree with your statement about an overall philosophy. I was just trying to point out that our current schemes can work together, score quick>get a lead>force the other team to pass>kill the QB. But since we don't have the needed pass rush, nor the quick offense capability currently needed, it seems like we are working against ourselves. Offense can't get or stay on the field to find a rhythm and the defense cant get off the field and take a break.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Every time we play a team that also likes to play with tempo, this is the feeling I am overwhelmingly left with.
If we go the D coordinator route, Jimmy Lake at Washington might be interesting. And he was a coach with Tampa Bay (not during Lovie's tenure), so he has that going for him.
I'm also intrigued by Jimmy Lake. Coached under Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, and Raheem Morris in the NFL so he would be able to work with the inherited roster. Spent the last 8 seasons under one of the top college coaches in Chris Petersen. Washington has had one of the top defenses in the country and plays a varied scheme (3-4, 4-3, 2-5...) so he clearly is not married to the Tampa 2. Cal seems to have found success with Justin Wilcox. A talented, young college DC like Lake or Jim Leonhard should be realistic options for Illinois.
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