Maybe this is simply just a bushido code type of deal: Lose to Penn State and one of your warriors must either fall on his own sword or be forever exiled.Losing two guys during the season not a great look for the program.
Maybe this is simply just a bushido code type of deal: Lose to Penn State and one of your warriors must either fall on his own sword or be forever exiled.Losing two guys during the season not a great look for the program.
Trent and Demonte never played for another coach. They may not have been recruited by him initially, but he was their coach from day one on campus.I won't dissect Brad Underwood's coaching style or philosophy in this thread. Every student-athlete will react in their own way to a system. I'm assuming recruits talk to other players (including those who transferred out) and get a pretty good read on what they're walking into. I do tire of the constant re-arranging of the roster and staff. We're on year six with Coach U, and we've replaced the top three coaches (with three very excellent coaches).
Also, Coach Underwood has yet to graduate a single one of HIS recruits (except for his son, I guess, although he transferred in as well). They have all turned pro (Black, Ayo, Kofi, kind of Hutch I think) transferred, or are still on the roster. I loved that Trent and Da'Monte showed a ton of passion and stayed on for so long, but I really don't like the idea of a new starting five year in and year out if we're not making it past the first weekend.
(And before you say every school does this)
Illinois has now had 22 players transfer or turn pro in BU's tenure:
Te'Jon Lucas/Leron Black/Michael Finke/Mark Smith/Greg Eboigod/Matic Vesel/Samba Kane/Georgi Bezshonisvili/Ayo Dosunmu/Tevian Jones/Alan Griffin/Jermaine Hamlin/Kofi Cockburn/Austin Hutcherson/Ben Verdonk/Jacob Grandison/Adam Miller/Andre Curbelo/Omar Payne/Brandon Podzinski/Zach Perrine/Skyy Clark
Purdue has had 3 during this time including a top 5 pick:
Emmanuel Duwuona/Isiah Thompson/Jaden Ivey
Kansas has had 8 plus one player die (six transfers)
Quentin Grimes/Devin Dotson/Garrit Luinsta/Tristin Enaruna/Christian Braun/Isaac McBride/Bryce Thompson/Tyon Foster/
I'm too lazy to look at the rest of the NCAA (I'm sure someone could find a website dedicated to this sort of thing) but there are two teams with a lot of success without losing a lot of players year in and year out.
I enjoy Illini basketball, but I would much rather have consistency in the roster and be building a team rather than working piecemeal year in and year out.
As John McKay said when asked how he felt about his team's execution: I'm in favor of it.Maybe this is simply just a bushido code type of deal: Lose to Penn State and one of your warriors must either fall on his own sword or be forever exiled.
I only yell at dog-shaped clouds.
I think this is the key. And perhaps this was my point in my initial post. We're two weeks from March, and we're getting still talking about "lack of effort," and being disconnected on defense. If you can take five new players every year, throw them in a jar, and pour out magic, I'm all for it. I'd really like to watch an Illini basketball game during the last two weeks of spring training.Alabama says hello. Number 1 team in the country. You can argue their 5 best players this year are 4 freshman and Mark Sears, who transferred from Ohio. And only 1 of those freshman was a top 20 recruit. Oats has managed to bring in transfers and freshman and it seems to be working fairly well. Bediako, Quinerly and Gurley are the only guys still there from last year that got any playing time last year and who play this year. Oats seems to know the type of guys he wants for his roster.
Last night was the first time we’ve been out of sorts defensively in the last 12 games. We’re top 25 defensively.I think this is the key. And perhaps this was my point in my initial post. We're two weeks from March, and we're getting still talking about "lack of effort," and being disconnected on defense. If you can take five new players every year, throw them in a jar, and pour out magic, I'm all for it. I'd really like to watch an Illini basketball game during the last two weeks of spring training.
Where are you pulling this data from? I would not trust all the data you read from 247, etc. as the transfer portal is not publicly available.I went out and looked for a different team for comparison's sake. I'll probably get put on notice for choosing an established coach, and that's fine. But since they kicked our !!! last year, I'll use them anyway:
Houston
Sampson Yr 1: Two transferred out (1 coaching change too)
Year 2: 0 transfers out
Year 3: 1 transfer out
Year 4: 2 transfers out
Year 5: 1 went pro
I have no doubt that Brad does too. The difference is Oats has basically been getting everyone he wants.Alabama says hello. Number 1 team in the country. You can argue their 5 best players this year are 4 freshman and Mark Sears, who transferred from Ohio. And only 1 of those freshman was a top 20 recruit. Oats has managed to bring in transfers and freshman and it seems to be working fairly well. Bediako, Quinerly and Gurley are the only guys still there from last year that got any playing time last year and who play this year. Oats seems to know the type of guys he wants for his roster.
Look, I'm not an analyst, and I pulled the data over a lunch break looking at rosters over one year to the next (for Purdue, Kansas, Houston). I clearly missed a few guys, but it still doesn't put them on par with Illinois. Which is fine if it works.Where are you pulling this data from? I would not trust all the data you read from 247, etc. as the transfer portal is not publicly available.
I think it is the terrain of the B1G that drives the level of transfers we see in our conference. Many players come in thinking they are going to start and get huge exposure on the national stage, and when they don't get the tick they expect, they tend to transfer out to lower-tier conferences. We know more about our team, so it feels like we are seeing more departures than other programs. I am just not sure that is the case (it is hard to locate many names that depart from other programs).
When you are winning like we have been the last 2-3 years, many of the young players get buried on the depth chart or play less than they want and opt to transfer to get immediate playing time elsewhere or make money overseas. They could have been great pieces here now, but in this new environment of not having to sit out a year for first transfer, it should not be unexpected to see the volume of turnover we have seen. Add in NIL to the mix, and you have the situation we are in.
I trust that Brad and company will be able to navigate the ship in the years to come. Just don't expect that a starting 5 will stay very similar year to year. It is just the nature of the new world we live in.
You mean those ufo's (unidentified floating objects)?I heard zach was worried aboot all dem balloons floating all over North America............balloon phobia.....it's real..it really really is
I am guessing that you mean by getting is that Oats bought the players. Hello, it is all a level playing field at this point. And most of Bama's money is going to football players. Not basketball. Brandon Miller's dad played football at Alabama. They gave them a leg up. The other recruits were all guys in the 40-100 range and he got them because they like his style of play and he can recruit. Kids like to play for him. Not so sure that is the case with Underwood. Time will tell.I have no doubt that Brad does too. The difference is Oats has basically been getting everyone he wants.
I wasn't implying that, necessarily. All I'm saying is that he seems to be reeling in his "plan A" guys consistently.I am guessing that you mean by getting is that Oats bought the players. Hello, it is all a level playing field at this point. And most of Bama's money is going to football players. Not basketball. Brandon Miller's dad played football at Alabama. They gave them a leg up. The other recruits were all guys in the 40-100 range and he got them because they like his style of play and he can recruit. Kids like to play for him. Not so sure that is the case with Underwood. Time will tell.
BBV, Hutch and Jake all got degrees from Illinois too but yet you listed them in your original post.Stop putting out bad info.Not sure how I missed Haarms, but Eric Hunter was a 4 year player that graduated and transferred. I pointed that out in my initial post.
Also, Coach Underwood has yet to graduate a single one of HIS recruits.
I won't dissect Brad Underwood's coaching style or philosophy in this thread. Every student-athlete will react in their own way to a system. I'm assuming recruits talk to other players (including those who transferred out) and get a pretty good read on what they're walking into. I do tire of the constant re-arranging of the roster and staff. We're on year six with Coach U, and we've replaced the top three coaches (with three very excellent coaches).
Also, Coach Underwood has yet to graduate a single one of HIS recruits (except for his son, I guess, although he transferred in as well). They have all turned pro (Black, Ayo, Kofi, kind of Hutch I think) transferred, or are still on the roster. I loved that Trent and Da'Monte showed a ton of passion and stayed on for so long, but I really don't like the idea of a new starting five year in and year out if we're not making it past the first weekend.
(And before you say every school does this)
Illinois has now had 22 players transfer or turn pro in BU's tenure:
Te'Jon Lucas/Leron Black/Michael Finke/Mark Smith/Greg Eboigod/Matic Vesel/Samba Kane/Georgi Bezshonisvili/Ayo Dosunmu/Tevian Jones/Alan Griffin/Jermaine Hamlin/Kofi Cockburn/Austin Hutcherson/Ben Verdonk/Jacob Grandison/Adam Miller/Andre Curbelo/Omar Payne/Brandon Podzinski/Zach Perrine/Skyy Clark
Purdue has had 3 during this time including a top 5 pick:
Emmanuel Duwuona/Isiah Thompson/Jaden Ivey
Kansas has had 8 plus one player die (six transfers)
Quentin Grimes/Devin Dotson/Garrit Luinsta/Tristin Enaruna/Christian Braun/Isaac McBride/Bryce Thompson/Tyon Foster/
I'm too lazy to look at the rest of the NCAA (I'm sure someone could find a website dedicated to this sort of thing) but there are two teams with a lot of success without losing a lot of players year in and year out.
I enjoy Illini basketball, but I would much rather have consistency in the roster and be building a team rather than working piecemeal year in and year out.
Look at the big12. K St had 9 leave and they are ranked. ISU,Ok, OSU had 4-6 transfer. Those teams had more recent HC changes and it shows. We are not unusual.For anyone interested, I have found this: https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Big-Ten-Conference/2/transfers/2023
I was just playing around with it, looking at the Big Ten for this past offseason. It's neat, except for it doesn't specify whether a transfer out is already a grad transfer vs. turning senior. They list both types of players as seniors.
It's probably because we pronounce it wrong tooIt's only spelled "Champaign" if it's from the East Central region of Illinois. Otherwise it's just sparkling wine.
Just did that tonight lolAnybody who wants their dog to come to dinner or come in out of the weather; probably does.
Not sure that it's the new normal. But interestingly enough, two of Perrin's French Jr. National teammates signed with Wash. St. last summer and were freshman this year. One of them left the team in early December, went back to France, signed with an agency a couple weeks later, and is now finishing out the season playing for a professional French team, which looks like the exact route that Perrin is taking with him signing with an agency today. Skyy and Perrin's situations were pretty different, so I don't think (at least I hope) the trend of multiple players leaving midseason will continue.I need to ask this question: Are players leaving their team in the middle of the season, the new normal?
Is it happening across NCAA men's BB this year? Has it ever happened as much as it is this year?
Coaches are making, what, $3,000,000 a year and up at most major conferences. They need to win now.
They must motivate their players to perform, or sit during games. I can't blame the coaches.
I know what's it's like to try to mange mostly young people. I hate it.
I'm beginning to wonder if Calipari is on the hot seat yet?
I'm thinking Hubert Davis is loosening his collar about now.
Many others are in the same category, I'm sure.
And the kids pout and want to go be with mommy because that can't have it their way!
I think most of the reasons stated here are merely speculation. It sounds more feasible that his reason was a big payday back home. It's very likely that all of these recruits know exactly the coach's coaching style before they ever sign on.It's no wonder that he left.
Last summer he played semi-pro basketball at Antibes on the Cote d'azur on the gold coast of France. Then he heads to the plains of Kansas (!) for a temporary fall stay and on to U of Ill for WINTER and Coach Underwood yelling, chewing out guys at practice, and hard study in school. All in a foreign language!
I can imagine that if anyone from France contacted him to come back and play basketball he'd be gone in a flash.
Here's the worrisome part. Who is counseling these young "sensitive" guys Like Skyy and Zak when they run into rough patches? I'm surprised that they just "up and left" almost before anyone knew. The pressure and tension they feel must be bled off before it arrives at a separation.
I know college life is HARD with studies and basketball, and Coach is not an easy guy to play for. And then to practice hard and then sit on the bench all game, we might ALL begin to wonder if its worth it and be tempted to bail.
In the big picture, when you bring in 7-8 new guys its hard for them all to meld together. Skyy may have been driven off by the team, but Zak slunk off to fairer shores.