Maybe this is simply just a bushido code type of deal: Lose to Penn State and one of your warriors must either fall on his own sword or be forever exiled.
Zacharie Perrin has left the Illinois program
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Trent and Demonte never played for another coach. They may not have been recruited by him initially, but he was their coach from day one on campus.
If you are going to count Lucas, Black, & Finke against his retainment record, I think you have to give him credit for 5 seasons with Trent and Demonte.
What about Andres Feliz?
The really good teams this year do have a lot of continuity. I think a lot of coaches are getting a wakeup call on its value this season. The players aren't the only ones finding out that the new transfer rules are a blessing and a curse. I think a lot of coaches saw the portal as an opportunity to get better fast, and in many cases, it hasn't worked out as well in practice as it often looks on paper. I too am hopeful we can keep a core group of guys going into next season.
At minimum, I hope Epps, Rogers, Harris, Goode, and Dainja stay. That's a B1G quality starting lineup. I would love to have Hawkins back, but that's a significant question at this point. I'm rooting for RJ, but I feel like the writing is on the wall there... too many red flags to ignore.
We will add transfers, and we will lose transfers. I just hope we can internally develop an identity and leadership w/o needing a transfer to provide it.
Alabama says hello. Number 1 team in the country. You can argue their 5 best players this year are 4 freshman and Mark Sears, who transferred from Ohio. And only 1 of those freshman was a top 20 recruit. Oats has managed to bring in transfers and freshman and it seems to be working fairly well. Bediako, Quinerly and Gurley are the only guys still there from last year that got any playing time last year and who play this year. Oats seems to know the type of guys he wants for his roster.
As John McKay said when asked how he felt about his team's execution: I'm in favor of it.
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
I think this is the key. And perhaps this was my point in my initial post. We're two weeks from March, and we're getting still talking about "lack of effort," and being disconnected on defense. If you can take five new players every year, throw them in a jar, and pour out magic, I'm all for it. I'd really like to watch an Illini basketball game during the last two weeks of spring training.
Last night was the first time we’ve been out of sorts defensively in the last 12 games. We’re top 25 defensively.
Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
Where are you pulling this data from? I would not trust all the data you read from 247, etc. as the transfer portal is not publicly available.
I think it is the terrain of the B1G that drives the level of transfers we see in our conference. Many players come in thinking they are going to start and get huge exposure on the national stage, and when they don't get the tick they expect, they tend to transfer out to lower-tier conferences. We know more about our team, so it feels like we are seeing more departures than other programs. I am just not sure that is the case (it is hard to locate many names that depart from other programs).
When you are winning like we have been the last 2-3 years, many of the young players get buried on the depth chart or play less than they want and opt to transfer to get immediate playing time elsewhere or make money overseas. They could have been great pieces here now, but in this new environment of not having to sit out a year for first transfer, it should not be unexpected to see the volume of turnover we have seen. Add in NIL to the mix, and you have the situation we are in.
I trust that Brad and company will be able to navigate the ship in the years to come. Just don't expect that a starting 5 will stay very similar year to year. It is just the nature of the new world we live in.
I have no doubt that Brad does too. The difference is Oats has basically been getting everyone he wants.
Look, I'm not an analyst, and I pulled the data over a lunch break looking at rosters over one year to the next (for Purdue, Kansas, Houston). I clearly missed a few guys, but it still doesn't put them on par with Illinois. Which is fine if it works.
I'm not asking for a regime change. I'm actually hoping for more stability. I loved Alfonso Plummer last year, but perhaps if Podz get those minutes early in the season, he's developed and playing as an impact player come March. And maybe he's making an impact this year for us.
I'm also tired of buying jerseys, and the minute I do, the player effing leaves.
I did pull this from a website and not from chicken scratches on a legal pad:
"Coaching tenure length also plays a part in college basketball’s transfer movement. Unstable coaching staffs tend to have more players transfer out of their university than programs that have retained the same head coach. In the past six seasons, teams that have retained the same head coach have averaged 10.4 players transfer out of the university, while teams with two or three coaching changes have averaged 14.0 and 15.5 transfers over the six-year span, respectively."
If we make noise in March, I'll be fine with this method of plug and play. It just seems the guys don't jive all the time. There's a lot of talk about instilling culture ("Everyday guys,"), but you just don't see it. And again, I'm not asking for a new coaching staff, if anything, it's the opposite.
For anyone interested, I have found this: https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Big-Ten-Conference/2/transfers/2023
I was just playing around with it, looking at the Big Ten for this past offseason. It's neat, except for it doesn't specify whether a transfer out is already a grad transfer vs. turning senior. They list both types of players as seniors.
I was just playing around with it, looking at the Big Ten for this past offseason. It's neat, except for it doesn't specify whether a transfer out is already a grad transfer vs. turning senior. They list both types of players as seniors.
You mean those ufo's (unidentified floating objects)?
I am guessing that you mean by getting is that Oats bought the players. Hello, it is all a level playing field at this point. And most of Bama's money is going to football players. Not basketball. Brandon Miller's dad played football at Alabama. They gave them a leg up. The other recruits were all guys in the 40-100 range and he got them because they like his style of play and he can recruit. Kids like to play for him. Not so sure that is the case with Underwood. Time will tell.
I need to ask this question: Are players leaving their team in the middle of the season, the new normal?
Is it happening across NCAA men's BB this year? Has it ever happened as much as it is this year?
Coaches are making, what, $3,000,000 a year and up at most major conferences. They need to win now.
They must motivate their players to perform, or sit during games. I can't blame the coaches.
I know what's it's like to try to mange mostly young people. I hate it.
I'm beginning to wonder if Calipari is on the hot seat yet?
I'm thinking Hubert Davis is loosening his collar about now.
Many others are in the same category, I'm sure.
And the kids pout and want to go be with mommy because that can't have it their way!
Is it happening across NCAA men's BB this year? Has it ever happened as much as it is this year?
Coaches are making, what, $3,000,000 a year and up at most major conferences. They need to win now.
They must motivate their players to perform, or sit during games. I can't blame the coaches.
I know what's it's like to try to mange mostly young people. I hate it.
I'm beginning to wonder if Calipari is on the hot seat yet?
I'm thinking Hubert Davis is loosening his collar about now.
Many others are in the same category, I'm sure.
And the kids pout and want to go be with mommy because that can't have it their way!
I wasn't implying that, necessarily. All I'm saying is that he seems to be reeling in his "plan A" guys consistently.
We are getting quality players, but we have missed quite a few guys we worked really hard to get. (Boswell, Whitmore, Hopkins, etc.) There was a lot of speculation about us getting Burnett this off-season. (Where is he? oh yeah....)
JD Davidson (last year) and Brandon Miller (this year) are absolute top of the recruiting board guys. Those guys looked like NBA players in game one.
Not to disparage our guys in any way, but those guys are different.
BBV, Hutch and Jake all got degrees from Illinois too but yet you listed them in your original post.Stop putting out bad info.
Finke, Lucas, and Black were not Underwood recruits. Underwood's first incoming class was 2017.
D'Amonte Williams graduated with a degree in 2021
Trent Frazier graduated with a degree in 2022
Jacob Grandison earned bachelor's and master's degrees.
Austin Hutcherson earned a bachelor's and possibly a master's.
Could be more.
Just looked at Kansas' turnover over the years you used in your exercise and they had 15 players transfer or turn pro, not 8. Given the stability they have had over the last 20 (really 100+) years and our coaching change and I'd say that variance is expected at worst.
2018-19
Malik Newman, Sam Cunliffe, LaGerald Vick (midseason)
2019-20
Dedric Lawson, Issac McBride (left before playing), KJ Lawson, Quentin Grimes
2020-2021
Devin Dotson, Marcus Garrett, Tyon Grant-Foster, Tristan Enaruna, Gethro Muscadin (killed in car crash the following season), Latrell Josell (left before playing), Bryce Thompson
2021-2022
Chrisitian Braun
Look at the big12. K St had 9 leave and they are ranked. ISU,Ok, OSU had 4-6 transfer. Those teams had more recent HC changes and it shows. We are not unusual.
On the flip side, UNC brought back 4 starters from a final four team and sometimes on the court they look like they’ve never met.
It’s about guys coming together as a unit. Knowing their roles, embracing those roles, communicating, and holding each other accountable. Time together definitely helps, but it’s not the end all, be all. Some times people click, sometimes they don’t.
It’s about guys coming together as a unit. Knowing their roles, embracing those roles, communicating, and holding each other accountable. Time together definitely helps, but it’s not the end all, be all. Some times people click, sometimes they don’t.
It's well documented that Brad is a hard coach. If you think these kids don't go in knowing that you are mistaken. If they decide it's not for them, then so be it. I don't think that was the case with Perrin, but that is what is being brought up. If you want a "nice guy" coach for your program I heard Groce would like another shot at P5.
Just did that tonight lol
Not sure that it's the new normal. But interestingly enough, two of Perrin's French Jr. National teammates signed with Wash. St. last summer and were freshman this year. One of them left the team in early December, went back to France, signed with an agency a couple weeks later, and is now finishing out the season playing for a professional French team, which looks like the exact route that Perrin is taking with him signing with an agency today. Skyy and Perrin's situations were pretty different, so I don't think (at least I hope) the trend of multiple players leaving midseason will continue.
I think most of the reasons stated here are merely speculation. It sounds more feasible that his reason was a big payday back home. It's very likely that all of these recruits know exactly the coach's coaching style before they ever sign on.
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