Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#501      
Then we should take down banners for our Big Ten Championships and BTT championships. Tacky to celebrate practice results.

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That’s what makes this more frustrating since we’ve been so successful without as much done with March. I’m not all or nothing but it’s not good for program sustainability if he can’t show that he’s capable of making more noise in the post season. We still have a month or so left so this is certainly premature.
 
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#503      
Philadelphia 76Ers Basketball GIF


That’s what makes this more frustrating since we’ve been so successful without as much done with March. I’m not all or nothing but it’s not good for program sustainability if he can’t show that he’s capable of making more noise in the post season. We still have a month or so left so this is certainly premature.
This thread has been bleak as heck and an absolute car crash to skim. I understand how we got here. I understand why we are talking like this. But man, dismissing the Big Ten Championships and BTT championships is way, way, way too far. Personally, I'm proud as anything of watching my teams hold up those trophies and cut down those nets. Before Brad got here, the last time we saw it was 2005. That fact is simply not lost on me. You play for championships. We won championships. Yeah, there's March Madness, too, but to act like that's the only thing that matters is wildly shortsighted.
 
#504      
I'm pretty sure you could take any high level coach, pick out a 3 or 4 year period, and find that they underperformed in March. It's a crapshoot.

People were questioning BU after the 22/23 season. He learned and adjusted, and had a great year last season. Let's see what he learns and fixes about this year. I'm guessing next season is going to be fun.
 
#505      
Do we evaluate someone's work in progress or the final product? You can do both, to a certain extent so since you need a certain level of regular season success to have any post season success, but ultimately college basketball is judged by March. There's a reason why Izzo was known as Mr. March. When his teams stumbled during the season, it was attributed to working out the kinks in preparation for the post season. Your work during the season is to prepare your team to be in the best position for the post season.
I think that is really overstating it. Would you rather be 30-4 winning conference titles, with disappointing tourneys, or 20-14 with tourney lightning in a bottle a year or two?
 
#506      
Illinois under Brad Underwood:

NCAA Tournament Year - Finish
2018 - No tournament
2019 - No tournament
2020 - COVID
2021 - 1 - Round of 32
2022 - 4 - Round of 32
2023 - 9 - Round of 64
2024 - 3 - Elite Eight

If you use this and expected number of wins from when we made the tournament: https://bracketodds.cs.illinois.edu/seedadv.html (thanks whomever did this)

2021 - 1 seed - 3.30 wins
2022 - 4 seed - 1.56 wins
2023 - 9 seed - .62 wins
2024 - 3 seed - 1.84 wins

I believe that's 7.32 wins expected in 4 tournaments and his actual is 5 wins (Rd 32 {1 win}, Rd 32 {1 win}, Rd 64 {0 wins}, Elite Eight {3 wins}). So even ignoring what he inherited and the first 3 years of his tenure, I don't think it's unreasonable to think he's underachieved in the NCAA tournament.

FWIW, I like old fiery Brad and what he's done to turn the program around is amazing. But I don't see the fire in him on the sideline and there are times where his stubbornness and resistance to in-game adjustments absolutely hurts the team.
FWIW, I like old fiery Brad and what he's done to turn the program around is amazing. But I don't see the fire in him on the sideline and there are times where his stubbornness and resistance to in-game adjustments absolutely hurts the team.

Agree 100%. I really miss the pissed off, fart-noise, making version of Brad.
 
#507      
I'm pretty sure you could take any high level coach, pick out a 3 or 4 year period, and find that they underperformed in March. It's a crapshoot.

People were questioning BU after the 22/23 season. He learned and adjusted, and had a great year last season. Let's see what he learns and fixes about this year. I'm guessing next season is going to be fun.
I'll speak for myself.

The amount of losing this year hasnt been THE issue for me. Every good coach has had a down year. It's the lack of direction the team has had during those losses and even in a few wins that is concerning.

If you ask, what is this team trying to do? I couldn't give you a good answer.

-Early Brad was pressing
-Ayo years were PnR and feeding Kofi
-TSJ transition/booty ball/spread out
-This year, really no identity (not an effective one at least)

Someone can point it out to me if you'd like? KJ iso and chucking?
 
#508      
He’s got top tier NIL now … And went like 0-20 in SEC last year …
LOL...OK. Yeah, he went 0-20 in year 2 of rebuilding a dumpster fire of a program that Cuonzo left. I certainly hope you're not insinuating that you don't think he's a good coach b/c I've respected your opinions. I hear you on NIL mainly b/c of revenue sharing stuff, but still think he's destined for bigger things than Miznoz.
 
#510      
I'll speak for myself.

The amount of losing this year hasnt been THE issue for me. Every good coach has had a down year. It's the lack of direction the team has had during those losses and even in a few wins that is concerning.

If you ask, what is this team trying to do? I couldn't give you a good answer.

-Early Brad was pressing
-Ayo years were PnR and feeding Kofi
-TSJ transition/booty ball/spread out
-This year, really no identity (not an effective one at least)

Someone can point it out to me if you'd like? KJ iso and chucking?

Right, and I am saying we should be confident all that will get fixed this off-season. The pressure defense got fixed, the 22/23 year got fixed, and this will get fixed.
 
#511      
I’m sarcastic 90% of the time if that helps. Those championships matter and validate that Brad is a good is a very good coach, which in turn gives him grace to show that he’s capable of making adjustments in the offseason regardless of how this season ends. But those accomplishments alone don’t justify his salary so the standard on success is pretty high.
 
#512      
Right, and I am saying we should be confident all that will get fixed this off-season. The pressure defense got fixed, the 22/23 year got fixed, and this will get fixed.
I don't think you can have a full year where you don't have a team identity. That happening 2 times in 3 years is even more alarming.

With injuries/illnesses this year, one could argue that we still have more talent then the bottom 4 teams in the league.
 
#513      
I think you bring up a great point …

OA and Chin go to UK … Gentry goes to Gonzaga … Those are elite level programs that wanted our assistants …

Chester went to WVU for reasons that have been discussed on here … He’s a good HM assistant and there’s no doubt about that … Same goes for TA who elected to not work rather than be a part of this program … Antigua was obviously a major addition but not replacing TA was a MAJOR mistake …

Elite level programs can go poach assistants 24/7, 365 … And instead of doing that … We made no adjustments or upgrades …

How many elite level programs are coming after Hamer, Kwa Jones, or Tyler …
Correct me if I'm wrong...but I thought BU had (or has) someone in line for TA's spot, but that person wasn't or isn't available until the end of this season. Someone made the comment that this person was worth the wait and the other assistants would pick up the slack this season until the person comes on board
 
#514      
Um, Howard was let go. So Howard isn't the ideal comp for our coach.
This wasn't a comparison to him but a note that fans and boosters alike sometimes become laser focused on the tournament as proof of success when there are instances where it could be lipstick on a pig. I'm sure nc State fans are back to feeling where they were a year ago before keatts caught lightening in a bottle.
 
#515      
I don't think you can have a full year where you don't have a team identity. That happening 2 times in 3 years is even more alarming.

With injuries/illnesses this year, one could argue that we still have more talent then the bottom 4 teams in the league.

I'd say we do have a team identity. Play fast, shoot a lot of 3's, crash the glass hard, force tough 2's defensively, play drop defense, and don't gamble on steals.

But the 3's weren't falling, and we actually started to change that identity and get to the rim more. But the Morez injury really hurts that because he puts so much pressure on the rim AND he takes up a lot of space to allow others to get to the rim.
 
#516      
Plus let’s not forget Sean lost 2 starters last year in July … Lost his starting big man again this year in July and lost his best player for nearly a month …

We make all the injury excuses in the world for Brad …

This Up Here GIF by Chord Overstreet
Yeah, but you did just write, “But in the words of Shauna Green “no one gives a 💩 if you’re sick or hurt” … Figure it out …”. 😁
 
#519      
I think you bring up a great point …

OA and Chin go to UK … Gentry goes to Gonzaga … Those are elite level programs that wanted our assistants …

Chester went to WVU for reasons that have been discussed on here … He’s a good HM assistant and there’s no doubt about that … Same goes for TA who elected to not work rather than be a part of this program … Antigua was obviously a major addition but not replacing TA was a MAJOR mistake …

Elite level programs can go poach assistants 24/7, 365 … And instead of doing that … We made no adjustments or upgrades …

How many elite level programs are coming after Hamer, Kwa Jones, or Tyler …


Abraham Lincoln Yes GIF
 
#520      
What thread is it posted in?

Kind of disingenuous to pretend the tournament success is posted in a vacuum, and not at all related to the bigger conversation going on around it about whether we'd be better off with a different coach.
This one…if you use the arrow in the quoted posts it would take you there. Otherwise it’s #396
 
#521      
Never mind the small stuff. Flick it off your shoulders. I wouldn't bother responding to most of the replies you get. It's a waste of time.
 
#522      
As an EIU alum I would love this. I like Marty Simmons a lot but being at the bottom of the OVC for years isn’t gonna cut it. Definitely think we need a new face to run the program. Granted, it’s pretty tough to recruit someone to Charleston IL.

Was talking to a friend of mine (also an EIU alum like myself) that went to the game at SIUE. Said there was a moment where where Simmons was trying to get one of his players to call a timeout and snapped his fingers at one of the players on the court to tell them to come over to where he was at to call it. Just an absolute bag of the highest order.
 
#525      
Um, Howard was let go. So Howard isn't the ideal comp for our coach.
Um, how many times did Howard's Michigan team beat Underwood 's Illini. Ideal comp should include Oklahoma State's 1 point loss I guess.
 
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