OrangeBlue98
- Des Moines, IA
McDermott is 59.Also why would a coach that's pushing 69 wanna pick up and go set down roots and rebuild another program?
It would have to be an absurd pay raise or jump in program to make it worthwhile imo.
McDermott is 59.Also why would a coach that's pushing 69 wanna pick up and go set down roots and rebuild another program?
It would have to be an absurd pay raise or jump in program to make it worthwhile imo.
Would Indiana to 1993 plus UConn since be the greatest program of all time?
Coaches around the country will tell you this is a top 10 job ...
Resources, Facilities, Fan support, and an elite level AD who gets it (this matters so much more than people realize) ...
We are a high level program and we act like it ...
Your entire premise is "let me describe our successful coaches and lets omit a decade of bad basketball."One AD was scared to hire the best candidate because he didn't want to risk losing a good coach to another blue blood or the NBA. No one wanted to work for the other AD after he fired the previous coach because that AD was a first-class jerk and idiot.
It really wasn't any more complicated than that.
Yeah my bad. Got caught between typing 59 and pushing 60.
I clearly stated that I was showing the coaches who left Illinois for another job. I was very transparent with what I was saying, so there was no confusion.Your entire premise is "let me describe our successful coaches and lets omit a decade of bad basketball."
Why not just give BU & Whitman the credit?
God knows BU still needs to get this team to the promised land (s16) or else he might have to join your list, loyalty members with pitchforks helping him along the way...
It’s 2024 my friend. Like it or not the college sports world is rapidly evolving. What you’ve done recently is all that matters right now.A lot of recency bias here....I remember a few years back reading a similar analysis that had UI in the equivalent of tier 3. Over the long haul, IU, UM and OSU are too low here and MSU is probably too high (post Izzo anyway)
Thomas, watching those hires on the outside, seemed to go into those hires with the mindset of, “We’re Illinois. We can’t get a big name coach. We have to hire a mid-major.”People really overreacted to the Groce hire, coming on the heels of the Beckman shambles.
That didn't reflect a job no one wanted, even with someone like Mike Thomas at the helm. Thomas just made a big, big mistake because he really seemed to lack a good grasp of what you should be looking for on the coaching market and how to go through the process.
All of that said, Illinois Basketball is also a much better job now than it was then for a variety of reasons.
Not really true given the reported megabucks offers to Kevin Sumlin and Shaka Smart, who were the hottest coaches on those respective markets and took less money to not coach Illinois.Thomas, watching those hires on the outside, seemed to go into those hires with the mindset of, “We’re Illinois. We can’t get a big name coach. We have to hire a mid-major.”
What's why I said, "watching those hires from the outside."Not really true given the reported megabucks offers to Kevin Sumlin and Shaka Smart, who were the hottest coaches on those respective markets and took less money to not coach Illinois.
Thomas just had a really bad sense of value. This was most hard to understand in football where he was unwilling to consider anyone without head coaching experience (turning down Pat Narduzzi to hire Tim Beckman is wild, wild stuff).
But John Groce had a superficially awesome resume, so long as you stay laser-focused on all the wrong things and ignore the real markers of fit for a job like Illinois.
It speaks to what Thomas is, he's a suit, he's not an athlete or coach, he didn't have and wasn't interested in any advisory support from people who knew what they were talking about, and that era was the prime of search firms being more trouble than they were worth. Of course he missed, he wasn't even aiming in the right direction.
Whitman isn't perfect, the plan he and Lovie hatched in their secret meetings in Tampa was fatally flawed for instance, but both in terms of the coaching search processes he has run and the candidates he has chosen he understands that credibility is the most valuable currency.
I still don't really understand the Groce hire tbh. He had a few decent years at Ohio and then one tourney run on the back of DJ Cooper being awesome.Not really true given the reported megabucks offers to Kevin Sumlin and Shaka Smart, who were the hottest coaches on those respective markets and took less money to not coach Illinois.
Thomas just had a really bad sense of value. This was most hard to understand in football where he was unwilling to consider anyone without head coaching experience (turning down Pat Narduzzi to hire Tim Beckman is wild, wild stuff).
But John Groce had a superficially awesome resume, so long as you stay laser-focused on all the wrong things and ignore the real markers of fit for a job like Illinois.
It speaks to what Thomas is, he's a suit, he's not an athlete or coach, he didn't have and wasn't interested in any advisory support from people who knew what they were talking about, and that era was the prime of search firms being more trouble than they were worth. Of course he missed, he wasn't even aiming in the right direction.
Whitman isn't perfect, the plan he and Lovie hatched in their secret meetings in Tampa was fatally flawed for instance, but both in terms of the coaching search processes he has run and the candidates he has chosen he understands that credibility is the most valuable currency.
Well, it was two NCAA tournament successes, they'd scored an upset as a 14 seed two years earlier as well. But even that last Sweet 16 was just okay, 3rd in the MAC. Funny how dominant narratives around here ("Groce just needs to find his DJ Cooper") continue to carry along in the breeze.I still don't really understand the Groce hire tbh. He had a few decent years at Ohio and then one tourney run on the back of DJ Cooper being awesome.
On the other hand, Brad was absolutely dominant at SFU(89-14), and had a good year at OSU. Those are the program type builder guys you want to target from a mid major. Not guys coming off one good tourney run.
Well, it was two NCAA tournament successes, they'd scored an upset as a 14 seed two years earlier as well. But even that last Sweet 16 was just okay, 3rd in the MAC. Funny how dominant narratives around here ("Groce just needs to find his DJ Cooper") continue to carry along in the breeze.
The other big thing was Groce's nominal place as the "lead recruiter" on the Oden-Conley-Daequan Cook earthquake at tOSU.
Young energetic coach whose on-paper "guys he recruited" sheet shows some of the most spectacular talents in Big Ten history, who then made two buzzy mid-major tourney runs in four years as a head coach.
The problem is that there's basically nothing to take from the whole Oden scenario from an Illinois perspective, and NCAA success is basically totally meaningless in assessing a coaching resume.
Groce was 34-30 in the MAC and planned to center his Illinois program around epic multi-year teeny bopper romances of five-star recruits hoping that he could make Illinois seem cool to them. It was just a fatally hobbled concept with exactly the wrong idea about what was wrong with the program at the time.
Disgustingly enough, you know who I wanted that offseason, besides obviously Shaka? Chris Collins
(I've also heard stuff about Brad Stevens' interest in the job that I'm not 100% sure I believe)
Here is a simple answer to your question..I still don't really understand the Groce hire tbh. He had a few decent years at Ohio and then one tourney run on the back of DJ Cooper being awesome.
On the other hand, Brad was absolutely dominant at SFU(89-14), and had a good year at OSU. Those are the program type builder guys you want to target from a mid major. Not guys coming off one good tourney run.
Shaka was a good target but did U of I even make runs at guys like Scott Drew or Brad Stevens? If you wanted to go the smaller school route then during that time Chris Mack was at Xavier, Greg Marshal at Wichita st(in hindsight good move not getting him), Pastner looked like he was going to be a star at Memphis(what happened to him), or Randy Bennett and that's just off the top of my head.
What a great time capsule of the way we used to talk about these sorts of things. Building relationships with assistant coaches for high school underclassmen. Who's "real".This article outlines Groce's place in the earthquake.
Basketball Recruiting - Ohio States Groce attracting talent to Columbus
To understand what makes Ohio State assistant coach John Groce Rivals.com's 2006 Recruiter of the Year you need only to listen to the story of how hebasketballrecruiting.rivals.com
Everyone knows that moms loved Groce. When Mike Thomas asked his mom what he should do, she suggested he hire Groce.I still don't really understand the Groce hire tbh. He had a few decent years at Ohio and then one tourney run on the back of DJ Cooper being awesome.
On the other hand, Brad was absolutely dominant at SFU(89-14), and had a good year at OSU. Those are the program type builder guys you want to target from a mid major. Not guys coming off one good tourney run.
Shaka was a good target but did U of I even make runs at guys like Scott Drew or Brad Stevens? If you wanted to go the smaller school route then during that time Chris Mack was at Xavier, Greg Marshal at Wichita st(in hindsight good move not getting him), Pastner looked like he was going to be a star at Memphis(what happened to him), or Randy Bennett and that's just off the top of my head.
Incorrect.Brad gives 125% on recruiting - outworks the competition
I believe we reached out to Stevens, who politely declined and pointed us in Groce's direction if I remember correctlyWell, it was two NCAA tournament successes, they'd scored an upset as a 14 seed two years earlier as well. But even that last Sweet 16 was just okay, 3rd in the MAC. Funny how dominant narratives around here ("Groce just needs to find his DJ Cooper") continue to carry along in the breeze.
The other big thing was Groce's nominal place as the "lead recruiter" on the Oden-Conley-Daequan Cook earthquake at tOSU.
Young energetic coach whose on-paper "guys he recruited" sheet shows some of the most spectacular talents in Big Ten history, who then made two buzzy mid-major tourney runs in four years as a head coach.
The problem is that there's basically nothing to take from the whole Oden scenario from an Illinois perspective, and NCAA success is basically totally meaningless in assessing a coaching resume.
Groce was 34-30 in the MAC and planned to center his Illinois program around epic multi-year teeny bopper romances of five-star recruits hoping that he could make Illinois seem cool to them. It was just a fatally hobbled concept with exactly the wrong idea about what was wrong with the program at the time.
Disgustingly enough, you know who I wanted that offseason, besides obviously Shaka? Chris Collins
(I've also heard stuff about Brad Stevens' interest in the job that I'm not 100% sure I believe)
Let's be real here - Brad knows how to play the game; hiring Antigua was the first indication of that. No chance Kofi comes here otherwise, and that's what really put us on the map. NIL has changed the game in that regard, in our favor as you have noted.Incorrect.
Brad maintains a coaching staff that knows how to help him secure the players he needs to win.
This program fell down a decade-long hole not knowing the difference.
There have been recruiting misses under BU, no question, that's the nature of the sport. But the amount of time and energy spent on recruiting players who don't end up at Illinois has gone IMMESUREABLY down since Weber and especially Groce.
This is not a program that wastes its time anymore.
The point is that if you remove all of the bad things from a sequence of good and bad things, it will of course look good.I clearly stated that I was showing the coaches who left Illinois for another job. I was very transparent with what I was saying, so there was no confusion.
Again, the last three coaches WHO HAVE LEFT ILLINOIS FOR ANOTHER JOB either left for the NBA or a blueblood. I understand there were two coaches who were fired.
One thing I don't do is hide my intent or my main idea. If you are trying to imply any other meaning to my post or working on a different narrative, it's certainly not because I'm sending mixed signals in my posts.