Never forget, the MT regime is responsible for approving the 1LL1NO1S Nike type.
Coaching Carousel (Basketball)
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So we have Brad Stevens to blame for Groce. Doggone-it, I always liked Stevens too.
Stevens had interest in the job he just had no interest in working under Thomas. Don’t believe he vouched for Groce though.
Every single coach in America has had misses in recruiting. Every one. I'd suggest that he's WAY above the average . . .
Underwood did not hire Antigua for Kofi. That was just a bonus. Antigua is a highly respected assistant coach.
Kofi appeared to be 3rd or 4th on our list in recruiting. Timme was first. Tshiebwe was probably #2. Aidan Igiehon may have been #3, but I'd say it was probably Kofi. We probably knew Tshiebwe was going to end up at West Virginia, but we definitely did all we could to get Timme. It wasn't until 2 months after Timme committed that we got Kofi.
That was a very strong class for Cs.
Trilly Donovan seemed to put credence behind the IU / Pearl rumors. @Indy Illini Fan anything you’re hearing to this?
OrangeBlue98
- Des Moines, IA
I do understand that you aren't making this personal. My point is pretty easy to follow. It's no different than what happened at North Carolina under Dean Smith. Matt Doherty came in after Gutheridge, and he was fired. Roy Williams was the next coach. Illinois only had one additional coach fired, although I'll always contend Bill Gutheridge was gently led into retirement.
In the last 50 years, Illinois has had three coaches voluntarily leave for a different job. In all three cases, the move was to a certifiable blueblood (at least at the time) or to the NBA. It wasn't like an Illinois coach left for a program like Washington, Florida, or UConn. When they left, they left for jobs that anyone objectively looking at the situation would say, "Yep, that's a clear step up."
On the other side, Illinois has hired coaches from programs that recently made Final Fours (Lou - New Mexico State and Lon - Florida after having K-State within a whisker of a Final Four), the in-demand mid-major coach who was coming off of an Elite Eight (Self), and a coach who had built a program at a mid-major and was turning around a Power 5 program (Underwood).
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ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
You have to remember the context. After the two NCAA Runner-Ups, Butler had had a weaker non-tourney year, and were still in the Horizon League, moving to the Atlantic 10. The idea of what would become the new Big East hadn't been born yet, no one had any reason to think Butler wasn't going to remain a tiny job, it defied conventional reason that Stevens would want to stay there long term.
Nonetheless, the narrative was that Stevens adored the simplicity and control he had at Butler, his wife was an attorney at a firm in Indianapolis and they had a uniquely equal relationship and she would never leave, and there was no chance whatsoever he would take a job other than maybe IU or Duke, and someone like Illinois was wasting its time.
Anyway, the way I heard the story from relatively reliable sourcing back when I occasionally had that sort of thing, Illinois reached out to Stevens and contrary to the narrative he WAS interested at that time in parlaying his Butler success into a bigger job (true, it turned out), and he WAS intrigued by the Illinois job, and his ask of Mike Thomas was to understand how he saw the program's future, what Thomas' vision for Illinois was.
And Thomas told him that he wanted Illinois to lock down its borders in recruiting and be THE destination for elite talent, especially in Chicago. And he wanted the next coach to be hyper focused and committed to absolutely blanketing the recruiting trail in every high school, AAU program, etc.
This was the exact opposite of what Stevens had in mind for the program (which was more that Illinois could be a luxury version of what Bo Ryan was doing at Wisconsin at the time, a deeply culturally Big Ten system-ball player development machine), and there was so obviously a difference in vision that the parties mutually decided that was the end of it.
Do I 1000% believe Stevens was genuinely going to take the Illinois job that offseason if he heard the right things? I'm not sure I do.
But given that MT hired John Groce to do the job they way it's described there, I absolutely believe that was the vision communicated, and I absolutely believe Stevens was smart enough to know that was an absolutely foolish way to conceive of the Illinois job, and I definitely believe that Thomas was dumb enough to fail to tell the best coach on the market what he wanted to hear, and then walk away over a difference of his stupid half-baked vision.
IlliniMike_Aurora
Straight outta Champaign
The 80’s Belong to the Illini !!!
UCLA’s been falling a lot lately. No fan support. Broke non existent NIL.
Will be interesting to see if they come back once they play in the B1G. As far as faded Blues go, right now they will feel right at home with IU.
The Wisconsin job may wind up being open.
Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
Wiscy has just had a terrible February
P12 UW better be hiring a new coach. Hopkins isn’t winning or recruiting, and his buyout goes to zero after this year. The new AD didn’t hire him either.
If they give him another year it’s proof Washington basketball just doesn’t matter to enough people for a change to be made.
Hopkins reminds me of Groce.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
His point is QUITE clearly that this is a prestigious enough job that we won’t be losing coaches to the likes of anyone worse than Kansas or the NBA.
In defense of Groce, his entire staff of assistants probably cost less than one of BU's assistants. If you hire cheap talent, you are probably going to get mediocre results. Had JW required Groce to get new, more effective staff, he might well have been around a few more years. He just didn't have a staff that could forge good relationships with the better recruits.
How is using coaches from 48, 27, 22 & 19 years ago making a QUITE clear point? The youngest of those examples could get into Kams.
The point that a coach almost 50 years ago left for UCLA shows our current prestige is just silly. BU has done a great job here and the program is in a great spot...but Brad was rumored to be looking at other jobs last offseason. Let's maybe get some progress in the tourney, hang some banners this year and then anoint ourselves as a top 5 program?
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Oh man, Aidan Igiehon. Do I remember correctly was Tshiebwe always a UK lock?
OrangeBlue98
- Des Moines, IA
Bingo. I didn’t think it was that hard to figure out.
Wait a minute..... you seriously were unaware of the Walkup/Underwood/SFA run? I certainly was. BUT, I never envisioned BU would end up here a few years later. His hire was completely out of left field for me.... It WAS glorious! I hope the good play continues!!I didn’t know about Brad Underwood when he was hired, but, I think it’s turned out well!
Bigtex
- DFW
Tshiebwe went to West Virginia then transferred to Kentucky
Tshiebwe went to West Virginia before transferring to Kentucky
WAAAAYYYY above average. Good call!
He didn't go to UK, he went to West Virginia, but yes he was basically a lock. I believe the story was his host family was close with people at WVU. So while we recruited him hard, I'm sure Underwood knew, this isn't likely to happen.
Sorry, could've been clearer, I meant when he went portal-ing.
But I believe he brought those coaches with him. Started to believe in BU with the assistants he hired. Retained one from previous staff (for a short time) and hired recruiters. At this level it is a management job and Groce may have been able to coach but he didn’t manage.
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