Not my problem as I live and play by the rules. Yes, hacking is a crime but is entirely irrelevant. It’s not like it’s a mitigating factor in Michigan’s defense. It’s at most a curious side issue. Enforce laws and rules but don’t ignore cheating by anybody, especially when done systemically, since it undermines the sport.
Harbaugh sideways with NCAA
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One last thing
For purposes of this thread, at least -- I'll accept this: I'm worse than a Michigan fan, I'm a Michigan apologist!
WOW, so glad I had you to explain it to me . . . and to point out that ScUm has (an admittedly high quality) law school . . . I'm seeing a lot of ScUM arrogance in your posts here . . . I think I'll just take advantage of one of my legal rights . . .
That's not really plausible - any HC worth their salt and certainly one who runs his program like Harbaugh would know what the source of the information was - do you think he would let a low level scouting assistant on the field, communicating with the Coordinators in real time if he didn't know the source of the info?
Harbaugh wouldn't have given him that kind of influence over the game without knowing his sources and the accuracy of the info
Big Ten informs Michigan discipline is a possibility
The Big Ten has formally notified Michigan that it could be facing disciplinary action from the league, a step required by the league's bylaws in the event it becomes clear that a school might face punishment.
A little more detail. From unnamed sources looks like the conference is looking to possibly suspend Jim. Also scUM will try and block any punishment. If the Big Ten only issues a suspension and a small fine for Jim the punishment is a joke
Has anyone else picked up on Michigan Men now saying that the Illini had their signs last year?
"However, an Illinois staffer from last season where Ryan Walters was the defensive coordinator, has confirmed to The Wolverine that Walters and Illinois had stolen Michigan’s offensive signals last season.
The staffer said that Bret Bielema and Illinois got signals “legally” but I guess we’ll just have to take their word for it. Chris Balas also reports that Michigan suspects Ohio State of having its signals in 2018 and 2019."
https://gbmwolverine.com/2023/11/06...igan-football-in-2022-ohio-state-accused-too/
The staffer said that Bret Bielema and Illinois got signals “legally” but I guess we’ll just have to take their word for it. Chris Balas also reports that Michigan suspects Ohio State of having its signals in 2018 and 2019."
https://gbmwolverine.com/2023/11/06...igan-football-in-2022-ohio-state-accused-too/
Michigan’s violation wasn’t deciphering signs from public media. It was illegal in-person scouting, shooting video of their own to do it on a wholesale basis. Buying tickets and putting butts in seats with camera’s is the violation.
I'm sure everybody makes some effort to extract whatever they can from published media. That’s why everybody makes a reasonable effort to encrypt their signs rather than just holding up a two-digit number for example.
What it gets to is the severity of the violation -- did this really affect game results all that dramatically? Folks have been saying that Michigan needs to be punished severely because having an opponent's signals is worth around 21 points a game. Now it turns out everyone has everyone else's signals anyway.
Also, in that now infamous conference call (that really shouldn't have happened but oh well) MSU's rep made a big deal about player safety -- supposedly if someone knows your signals your players are more likely to be hurt. But if signals are being traded like Pokemon cards then this whole safety argument gets blown away -- if MSU took part in the trades (Anyone care to bet they didn't?) then they were just as likely to cause injuries as anyone else was. This argument was nonsense and now it's doubly nonsense. (As an aside, if you really want to "get" Michigan, you need to find someone other than MSU to carry the torch on this whole deal.)
So we are left with signals being nowhere near as secret as we thought anyway, and Michigan sending people to football games that are televised and watched by tens of thousands of spectators anyway -- it's not like these are cozy, private little gatherings that they crashed into.
The original point of the rule was not signals but saving money. In a business that is awash in cash from TV and now NIL rights. Not saying it's all kosher, but is this really worth nuking a football program over?
Silly question. Of course it is. Because it's Michigan.
No way to know, but we do know they cheated by doing illegal scouting on a big scale.
Let's compare it to Lance Armstrong, who won the Tour de France a record seven times. Armstrong was caught doping in an era when “everybody did it”, so did this really affect the TDF results all that dramatically? No way to know, but also irrelevant. Eventually he and everybody who was caught breaking doping rules had their wins vacated. Nobody questions the fairness of the punishment. The record books now show him with zero TDF wins.
I’d suggest a Harbaugh suspension is a reasonable immediate response. Longer term, after all is investigated, a suitable punishment would be to identify all games Michigan scouted in person, then vacate all wins against those teams. And do the same for any other team caught doing illegal scouting. Fair and objective, right?
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Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
from the above article in SI:
Petitti is facing the difficult task of finding an appropriate punishment in an unprecedented situation, and without much clarity within the Big Ten bylaws. All while Big Ten and NCAA investigations are still in motion. However, sources familiar with the Michigan program told SI that the school is bracing for Petitti to levy punishment.
“Tony told Michigan this was the worst scandal in Big Ten history, not including game fixing,” one Big Ten administrator told SI.
It’s up to the commissioner to find a way forward for Michigan and the whole conference—a job that may be about to get a lot harder.
welcome to the B1G, Tony
Always wonder what type of implications of this we’ll see with the proliferation of sports betting.
Tangibly, if Conor Stalions told a friend about their cheating operation and the friend used that information to bet against Michigan’s opponents.
Tangibly, if Conor Stalions told a friend about their cheating operation and the friend used that information to bet against Michigan’s opponents.
Ah, Zero Tolerance. It sounds lovely in theory. In practice it presents all kinds of problems.
Let's start by noting a big distinction between doping and scouting: doping is inherently dangerous -- especially to athletes themselves. You are messing with your own hormones. There's increased risk of cancer and damage to reproductive organs. The rule against doping isn't in place to save money, it's in place to keep cyclists from hurting themselves for an edge. Scouting opponents -- even away from your campus -- doesn't cause cancer or shrink anyone's nuts.
But okay, ZERO TOLERANCE -- YOU CHEAT, YOU LOSE -- ABSOLUTE PURITY -- NO EXCEPTIONS! Are you sure you're ready to live under that rule yourself? Did you ever read through the NCAA rules? There sure are a lot of them! And are you sure there isn't someone on Bret Bielema's staff who isn't cheating? Positive? Cuz major college football employs a lot of people and all we need is one guy cutting corners and you can forfeit entire seasons. And the more you win, the more likely someone's gonna start sniffing around and if they find anything...GOTCHA!
Right now the story is going around that a whole lot of Big Ten schools were colluding on signals. Collusion is also against the rules. ZERO TOLERANCE! Maybe we wind up vacating everyone's wins, because YOU CHEAT, YOU LOSE! That would be one way to achieve ABSOLUTE PURITY! Maybe everyone should be suspended, NO EXCEPTIONS! When everything is grounds for forfeit, it's the only way to be sure. Isn't this fun!
Or maybe we dial the outrage meter back down from an eleven to a ten, and allow ourselves to apply a little perspective.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
Reasonable but unlikely. "Don't just do something; stand there" is unsatisfying when The Death Star's vulnerability has been exposed.
I'm looking forward to seeing how Michigan deals with its tarnished image, given its haughty carriage among its lesser BT brethren, and what its retaliation will be. Lots of popcorn left to be popped and savored in this one.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
This posted last evening. Guest appearance by Ric Flair.
apnews.com
Ex-college football staffer shared docs with Michigan, showing Big Ten team had Wolverines' signs
A former college football staffer shared documents with Michigan that showed a Big Ten opponent had spreadsheets of the Wolverines’ signs last year obtained before his team played Michigan.
apnews.com
Next up, Bill Laimbeer.This posted last evening. Guest appearance by Ric Flair.
Ex-college football staffer shared docs with Michigan, showing Big Ten team had Wolverines' signs
A former college football staffer shared documents with Michigan that showed a Big Ten opponent had spreadsheets of the Wolverines’ signs last year obtained before his team played Michigan.
I don't think that having someone's plays makes the game more dangerous. We can finally agree on something.
You are now playing the "Ye who cast the first stone" defense. I'm sure Bielema has some sort of scout on signals as does every team. Why else do these programs have dozens of coaches? I think Michigan's bigger problem is not what they were doing, but how they were doing it, and how stupidly blatant it was. Whenever someone wants to use this defense, the correct answer is "yes, let's look in everyone's closets and see what's there", because all you are trying to do is intimidate others.
I think Harbaugh gets punished with a suspension, Michigan appeals, the process and punishment is delayed until next year and he misses several unimportant games next year. Even if he gets suspended and they lose a game, they could still make the playoff.
Anything outside a ban from the playoff is basically a slap on the wrist. I don't think a ban happens at this point. B1G leadership won't do what's necessary and the NCAA knows that they have no real teeth and are holding tenuously to what little power they have left. Any harsh decision may expedite the P2 breaking away.
Wow, Michigan is the worst type of whinebags! Sending video and information to B10 of others sharing signals to deflect what they have done. Sharing signals is WAAAAAAY different than sending personnel to games and getting them on the sidelines. In addition, plenty of video of Connor stallions standing next to Harbaugh and communicating with ole Jimbo on what was coming next.
Deflect and cause chaos all you want scUM but you are now living fully up to your potential!
Deflect and cause chaos all you want scUM but you are now living fully up to your potential!
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