That is not what the women bball players are saying at all.. :hand:
Illini Women's Basketball Allegations
That is not what the women bball players are saying at all.. :hand:
URH Snyder 490
Orange Crush '89
- Northern Illinois
Actually I was talking about the racism, being forced to play through serious debilitating injuries and the physical assaults.
But yeah, rub some dirt on it!
But yeah, rub some dirt on it!
Illwinsagain
- Cary, IL
There is a line, and I have no idea if our line is different than any other D1 college program. My guess, probably not too much further, if at all. However, asking a player to play hurt is a judgment call that should be up to the player and the medical staff. There is a big difference to saying, "we could use you out there, can you go?" and "if you want to be part of this team, you need to get out there!"
GreekIllini
G
Guest
I understand. But the cnn piece listed an additional two sports now that have allegations of abuse. In regard to the women bb case. Who knows... I find it hard to believe that only some women who are black themselves say abuse and the others don't. It sounds like sour grapes because of favoritism. Again like I said ....if I'm wrong please forgive me. But where is the evidence ? Where from all of this is the evidence
I'm not sure about the other allegations, but I can see why CNN would cover the story. It's pretty alarming when there are 3 programs at Illinois being investigated in a single year. I find that to be news-worthy and it is a black eye for the university regardless of the outcome.
As for the other black players, there are many reasons why some may choose to not report the abuse. They may not want the attention since they are still playing basketball either at Illinois or a new school, they may not believe that it is abuse (manipulation from coaches, upbringing, and other factors could influence this), or maybe they believe that the abuse is worth the scholarship. Either way, I wouldn't be surprised if this case is dismissed. It's hard to gather evidence for this kind of case, but it doesn't mean that the allegations are false.
Haven't seen anything about that.
There are two real big-time things that have been raised in this process:
1. Racial disparities in treatment of the Women's BB team
2. Lying to players about the severity of their injuries
If there were any convincing evidence that the WBB team had ever held a segregated practice, I'm sure Bollant would be gone by now. Impolitic remarks are a different question, and the idea that Bollant's assistant was a rogue bad actor who took it too far and was tolerated for too long isn't totally implausible. Does Bollant deserve to be fired for that? Debatable. Does Thomas? Absolutely not.
The medical stuff is a bit more complicated and will take time to investigate and can't be as easily shared with the public.
This kind of stuff happens everywhere - I think it isn't as much of an issue because athletes are less likely to bring it up at schools with successful storied programs - the community will turn on them in a split second.
Not as much talking about the racism as I am the football related issues.
Not as much talking about the racism as I am the football related issues.
The Illini community is begging for more with one hand as they tut-tut with the other for exactly the same reason they would at Georgia or Miami or Iowa - the Head Football Coach doesn't win enough games and anything that has a whiff of his potential ouster is catnip, no matter what the source.
What happens to these ladies if their allegations are proven to be made up? After all, for those that transferred I can't imagine their new schools would feel comfortable with these girls in their program knowing that they made up allegations and tried to pull a fast one like this over their old university. Not to mention who would want to hire them either if they knew they would do things like this. I'm well aware that getting 8 girls to all stick to the same story is hard to doubt, but so far the evidence has not persuaded me they're telling the truth either.
Where id you come up with the 5 figure for the number of coaches?
Here's the CNN story, not much new there and some comments that would weaken the "racist" angle, IMO.
So it wasn't just race, it was players recruited by the previous staff vs those recruited by the current staff. And the "segregated" practices were starters vs subs? Come on.
So it wasn't just race, it was players recruited by the previous staff vs those recruited by the current staff. And the "segregated" practices were starters vs subs? Come on.
Spot on. If the complaint is really just an amalgam of these kinds of throwaway accusations, you can see why people who know better are rolling their eyes over these claims. Saying a "majority" was this and a "majority" was that is meaningless; 4 out of 7 is a majority. If you believe something was racially motivated based on the numbers, then say what the numbers were. If it's based on something other than the numbers, then say that.
frankfortillini
- Frankfort, IL
And on to the CNN homepage: http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/07/us/illinois-athletics-allegations/index.html
It seems like the entire dividing line was Law's players versus Bollant's players.
Figures don't lie, but liars figure.
An old quote I remember, although not the source.
Sums up exactly what you pointed out. Iow, what angle of the story do you (generic you) want to present. Four out of seven is technically a majority. Writing using only the word majority IMHO shows bias.
Illwinsagain
- Cary, IL
Funny, I heard it as "figures lie and liars figure." It was an old operations manager that told me that 25 years ago. I'm old.
It is disgusting and its also disgusting that people are trying to defend it or insinuate that all these girls are liars. Being a fan doens't mean defending your school no matter what. Clearly the girls programs was ran by disgusting racists who like to bully young women. They should all be fired and so should Mike Thomas. This is a perfect reason to get rid of Thomas and hire someone who knows what they're doing.
Last edited:
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
Guilty until proven innocent?
This isn't a court of law and i'm not saying they should go to jail. I'm saying they should be fired. How tone deaf does someone have to be to defend this? Its highly unlikely this is all made up. The deep pocket cigar smokers are upset and its embarrassing the school. Why shouldn't they all be fired? We aren't talking about Lou Henson here we are talking about a women's program that about 12 people care about and its making Illinois look like a bunch out of touch bigots. This story has now gone national because Mike Thomas is as tone deaf as you and some of the fan base. You should care more about these kids then a coach who would allow this stuff to happen and an AD that is clueless about what goes on with the teams he oversees. Do you not get how bad this is?
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
Why don't we let the truth come out before lighting the torches and hoisting the pitchforks? So far the common thread is that Laws players have grievances that Bollant's players don't.
And nice job on not making it personal. I congratulate you on your objectivity.
It's gotta be tempting for Tim Killeen, Ed McMillan, and Phyllis Wise, none of whom had anything to do with hiring Mike Thomas, to just lower the boom and start over. That would make quite a statement.
I don't think that's the "right" thing to do, personally, but I am increasingly wondering whether what's "right" really matters here. The well is pretty darned poisoned and a new beginning looks awfully appealing.
I don't think that's the "right" thing to do, personally, but I am increasingly wondering whether what's "right" really matters here. The well is pretty darned poisoned and a new beginning looks awfully appealing.
Very good insight, but someone has to be willing to take the initiative. I wonder if any of those parties are willing to step up.
Also wonder how much MT's success in getting the SFC renovated plays a factor in leadership's decision. It shouldn't, but, well, ...