North Carolina Academic Fraud Investigation

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#101      

Doorman

D
Doorman
Top headline of cnn right now. This story is finally gaining major traction. UNC needs to save the reputation of it's institution so I wouldn't be surprised to impose some major penalties against themselves. We'll see though.
 
#103      

illinicb

I
Northbrook
illinicb
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#104      

Mike

Mike
C-U Townie
Mike
Doorman said:
Top headline of cnn right now. This story is finally gaining major traction. UNC needs to save the reputation of it's institution so I wouldn't be surprised to impose some major penalties against themselves. We'll see though.
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My mother in law even knew about it this morning. ;)

What can the NCAA do that even comes close to being enough?
Strip them of 18 years of wins, don't allow them to have sports teams for 18 years, 18 year coaching ban. They have the cajones to do that?
 
#105      

illinicb

I
Northbrook
illinicb
Mike said:
My mother in law even knew about it this morning. ;)

What can the NCAA do that even comes close to being enough?
Strip them of 18 years of wins, don't allow them to have sports teams for 18 years, 18 year coaching ban. They have the cajones to do that?
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What will be interesting is how this is viewed in the public. I think when there are scandals involving money, some/many people take the view that the player earned it, rules be damned. With blatant academic fraud, I don't think there will be many defenders.
 
#106      

Mike

Mike
C-U Townie
Mike
illinicb said:
And Roy continues to claim he had no knowledge. That may be the case, but it doesn't pass the sniff test in my view. It looks like we can cross Butch Davis off any coaching lists as well.

I also assume that these practices are not limited to UNC. Probably similar things at many places, but probably a matter of degrees (pardon the pun).
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No, only at Bluebloods. ;)

Yeah, I wonder what other schools will take heat, and how long it will take.
Places with higher academic standards will come out smelling much better in general I think. This could potentially be a good thing for us.
 
#107      

DaytonIllini

D
Guest
DaytonIllini
Calvin said:
The people who should be outraged are the college students, especially those who participated in sports and actually did the work.

Getting a degree while being an athlete = impressive.

UNC just made every resume, at least from UNC, highly suspect. I know of one manger who simply won't hire from schools with egregious behavior like this. Currently PSU and NC are blacklisted.

UNC lists its cost for one year as $24k in-state, and $51k out of state. So you're paying roughly $100k+ for that degree, assuming you make it through 4+ years to the end.

Definitely affects perception of the school.
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Calvin - I really like your posts but this is a bit over the top.

Two top 50 colleges blacklisted for the behavior of their athletic departments or administration? Should we not blacklist USC by that measure? SMU? Heck even Illinois? I don't feel particularly tainted by the MANY scandals at U of I (Slush fund, football sanctions, basketball sanctions with Deon, Law School improprieties, Med School improprieties, Bill Ayers, Solaita, etc. etc.).

The problem with this isn't an issue for a chemistry graduate from Chapel Hill. It's an issue for the athletic department in my opinion.
 
#108      

Mike

Mike
C-U Townie
Mike
DaytonIllini said:
Calvin - I really like your posts but this is a bit over the top.

Two top 50 colleges blacklisted for the behavior of their athletic departments or administration? Should we not blacklist USC by that measure? SMU? Heck even Illinois? I don't feel particularly tainted by the MANY scandals at U of I (Slush fund, football sanctions, basketball sanctions with Deon, Law School improprieties, Med School improprieties, Bill Ayers, Solaita, etc. etc.).

The problem with this isn't an issue for a chemistry graduate from Chapel Hill. It's an issue for the athletic department in my opinion.
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I disagree.
Many may think I'm naive, but IMO the integrity and competency for the entire leadership of the university over the last 18 years is now in question.
 
#109      

-josh-

J
Guest
-josh-
Joel Goodson said:
I don't find this scandal amusing in the least. With a comment like that, I wonder, do you?

Furthermore, intimation that we have a leg up on academic cheating for athletes because of our billionaire donors is beyond the pale. I truly hope I'm interpreting your post incorrectly.
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:coffee:


As usual, no.


Edit: Also i find this whole thing extremely amusing, and why shouldn't i? I'll have no control over what happens, so i might as well let the drama unfold like a movie.
 
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#112      

MainelyIllini

MainelyIllini
uh, Maine
MainelyIllini
urbanite said:
It doesn't work that way. UNC would simply lose the title.
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I assume this would be the case as you could look at the USC football title that was stripped from them for precedence. No other team was awarded the title for that year. However, the NCAA doesn't award them the title; I believe it was the BCS and AP that do the honors.

With basketball, there is no precedence for a championship team. There have been some notable runner ups that got their wins vacated (Memphis, Michigan).

However, I doubt the NCAA does what the Olympics would do, which is award the Silver medal winner the Gold if the Gold medal winner was found to have cheated after the fact.
 
#113      

RedButkus

R
Guest
RedButkus
illinicb said:
And Roy continues to claim he had no knowledge. That may be the case, but it doesn't pass the sniff test in my view. It looks like we can cross Butch Davis off any coaching lists as well.

I also assume that these practices are not limited to UNC. Probably similar things at many places, but probably a matter of degrees (pardon the pun).
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As I recall, Williams also claimed not to know that fans giving KU players money after their senior seasons was "wrong."
 
#115      

Tommy Gun

T
San Juan Capistrano, CA
Tommy Gun
illinicb said:
And Roy continues to claim he had no knowledge. That may be the case, but it doesn't pass the sniff test in my view. It looks like we can cross Butch Davis off any coaching lists as well.

I also assume that these practices are not limited to UNC. Probably similar things at many places, but probably a matter of degrees (pardon the pun).
Click to expand...
Either way, if anyone really thinks about it (and so few really do, IMO), Roy Williams should be figuratively pilloried...What's worse:

  1. Lying--Knowing of the scandal (taking many ludicrous classes to stay eligible) and not caring that his players are not receiving worthy educations, or
  2. Not knowing of the scandal--Being so detached from his 13 scholarship players that he doesn't even know their classes?
There is the hyperbole of the North Carolina Basketball Family, but would you trust your child to be coached by/led by Roy Williams? Or, is Roy Williams dishonest, or is Roy Williams totally disinterested in his players beyond what they can do for him on the basketball court?
 
#116      

JudsonFTS

J
JudsonFTS
Not justifying what they did in any form, but a work colleague played on the Hershel Walker National Champ GA Bulldogs football team.

Said there were lots of classes he did not attend and still got passing marks to stay eligible.

Of course the Jan Kemp scandal came thereafter and changed things, but to him this is really common place.
 
#117      

-josh-

J
Guest
-josh-
JudsonFTS said:
Not justifying what they did in any form, but a work colleague played on the Hershel Walker National Champ GA Bulldogs football team.

Said there were lots of classes he did not attend and still got passing marks to stay eligible.

Of course the Jan Kemp scandal came thereafter and changed things, but to him this is really common place.
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And i know of some improprieties in Illinois past (i will never tell a soul) but that doesn't make the institution as a whole corrupt. What sets UNC apart from others who may skirt the grey area occasionally is the consistency and blatant disregard they showed. Thousands, not 1 or a few...thousands...
 
#118      

Joel Goodson

Joel Goodson
respect my decision™
Joel Goodson
Mike said:
My mother in law even knew about it this morning. ;)

What can the NCAA do that even comes close to being enough?
Strip them of 18 years of wins, don't allow them to have sports teams for 18 years, 18 year coaching ban. They have the cajones to do that?
Click to expand...

Severe penalties, perhaps even the death penalty,...for UNC-Wilmington.
 
#119      

brapp33

brapp33
Normal IL
brapp33
The NCAA will do nothing to unc. At best a slap on the wrist and another slap in the face to illini nation. A damn shame for what was clearly one of the greatest teams in college basketball history.
 
#120      

illiniCA

illiniCA
DC Area
illiniCA
Mike said:
I disagree.
Many may think I'm naive, but IMO the integrity and competency for the entire leadership of the university over the last 18 years is now in question.
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Why would you not hire students from theses schools. That makes no sense. Its not like they are handing out grades to non student athletes in advanced classes.
 
#121      

Soxfreak64

Soxfreak64
Bloomington
Soxfreak64
illiniCA said:
Why would you not hire students from theses schools. That makes no sense. Its not like they are handing out grades to non student athletes in advanced classes.
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Actually, student-athletes made up only a bit more than 50% of those students that took "paper classes."

That means there are about 1400 UNC non athlete grads out there with serious blemishes on their diploma.
 
#122      

MastFan1

M
MastFan1
I wonder if someone would consider it a 'blemish' on my diploma if they sat through the semester of FSHN 120 a few years back with me.

These 'paper classes' sound very easy/fishy, but I'm not pretending I didn't experience anything similar at U of I. And I was in no way, shape or form a scholarship athlete.
 
#123      

Alfonz24

A
Alfonz24
Soxfreak64 said:
Actually, student-athletes made up only a bit more than 50% of those students that took "paper classes."

That means there are about 1400 UNC non athlete grads out there with serious blemishes on their diploma.
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From the report, it doesn't sound like it would be too hard to spot these non athlete blemishes.
 
#125      

IlliniJim20

I
IlliniJim20
illinicb said:
And Roy continues to claim he had no knowledge. That may be the case, but it doesn't pass the sniff test in my view. It looks like we can cross Butch Davis off any coaching lists as well.

I also assume that these practices are not limited to UNC. Probably similar things at many places, but probably a matter of degrees (pardon the pun).
Click to expand...

Would not be surprised if he had little to no knowledge. Plausible deniability. Let others handle this dirty work so he can technically keep his hands clean.

Actually, any coach would be stupid to get involved with these scenarios. Why bother when you hVe underlings to handle it?

Note, I am not condoning this behavior, but would not be surprised if coaches had no direct, specific knowledge, ON PURPOSE!!
 
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