That is true. Especially since she claims they didn't have any interaction or talk
TSJ Thread
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This statement from the UI spokesperson is not surprising to me, whatsoever. I would expect nothing less than this, as far as an official, public response to an active legal action.
If, as has been suggested, this is all being done with some degree of awareness (encouragement?) from certain individuals affiliated with UI, you can't expect anyone to come right out and say so
I really don't detect that this is about to turn into some ugly legal rock fight between TSJ's camp and the University.
Quite the hand-wringer comment. Who cares if there are demonstrators who wouldn't care what the actual facts might be, just protest to protest. Let him play.
The balance of the harms argument that Shannonn's lawyers have stated seems strong. For nonlawyers, the legal issue is sort of: OK, which is worse: keeping Shannnon suspended, only to have it later turn out that the charges weren't legitimate? Or forcing the university to lift the suspension, only to have it later turn out that he was guilty after all? It seems hard to make out even reputational injury to the university in the latter case, since it would be the court, not the university, saying that suspension isn't warranted.
As far as any supposed evidence goes, without any DNA it totally becomes a she said he said scenario. I used to work with a guy that was always having big crazy drama with his wife. Police involved several times and divorced and remarried 3 or 4 times, both having plenty of issues. Anyway one time they were having a big argument but nothing physical. She stormed off to the bedroom and locked the door. Thirty minutes later the he gets a knock on the door and it's the police. She comes out of the bedroom with scratches on her face, a bloody lip and a swolen eye. The cops throw him down and cuff him and take him to jail. She dropped the charges before it went to trial and the court didn't pursue it knowing their history. Six months later she would brag and laugh about how she beat herself up and framed him. They are still together as far as I know, can't believe they haven't killed each other yet. Just goes to show the lengths some people will go to spin or support their side of a story.
There is no way Terrence will be convicted based on what we all know, if and when this goes to trial. There is clearly not enough in this affidavit to convict TSJ. However, let's all understand that we are reading ONE single affidavit, albeit the biggest one by the complainant. IF there are OTHER affidavits by other witnesses, we do not know. Perhaps there are other witnesses the prosecution has that might corroborate her affidavit?? Does anyone know how the affidavit that we are all reading was made available for us to read? Is this affidavit the complete case, or is there a lot more we have no idea about?
My opinion, contrary to many on this board who think there is some collaboration with someone in the athletic department that hope this route works to reinstate him, is that the U of I will defend itself to uphold their authority and policies and that this motion will be denied. All the University is claiming is that they are following their written policy, which I believe case law says institutions are allowed to do. I'm not sure there is a strong enough case against the U of I at this time to change that. Plus, I don't believe there is any chance that someone at the U of I is assisting TSJ in any way to get him reinstated. That would be the death knell for the entire athletic department and the University. This is not a movie. Unfortunately I believe TSJ only recourse is once the case is dropped or he is deemed innocent, that he sue the accuser for defamation and false allegations. But even that will be difficult to win.
I hope will all of the orange blood running through my veins that he is absolutely innocent, not because there is not enough evidence, but because is actually wrongly accused. That being said, I know plenty of women, including my wife when she was in college, who have been grabbed and groped (aka sexually assaulted) while in a crowded campus bar, including at several U of I campus bars. If my now 20 year old daughter was grabbed and fingered by some creep, I wouldn't care if he was a superstar or a homeless vagrant, I would want that dude to be charged and found guilty and suffer exactly what he has coming to him.
This situation just sucks, and I hope he is just wrongly accused, but I don't things working in his favor. As at this point only God and TSJ know the truth, I hope the right decision is made tomorrow. This is the action I would take if I knew I was innocent. Not holding my breath on this one though.
My opinion, contrary to many on this board who think there is some collaboration with someone in the athletic department that hope this route works to reinstate him, is that the U of I will defend itself to uphold their authority and policies and that this motion will be denied. All the University is claiming is that they are following their written policy, which I believe case law says institutions are allowed to do. I'm not sure there is a strong enough case against the U of I at this time to change that. Plus, I don't believe there is any chance that someone at the U of I is assisting TSJ in any way to get him reinstated. That would be the death knell for the entire athletic department and the University. This is not a movie. Unfortunately I believe TSJ only recourse is once the case is dropped or he is deemed innocent, that he sue the accuser for defamation and false allegations. But even that will be difficult to win.
I hope will all of the orange blood running through my veins that he is absolutely innocent, not because there is not enough evidence, but because is actually wrongly accused. That being said, I know plenty of women, including my wife when she was in college, who have been grabbed and groped (aka sexually assaulted) while in a crowded campus bar, including at several U of I campus bars. If my now 20 year old daughter was grabbed and fingered by some creep, I wouldn't care if he was a superstar or a homeless vagrant, I would want that dude to be charged and found guilty and suffer exactly what he has coming to him.
This situation just sucks, and I hope he is just wrongly accused, but I don't things working in his favor. As at this point only God and TSJ know the truth, I hope the right decision is made tomorrow. This is the action I would take if I knew I was innocent. Not holding my breath on this one though.
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I think that we all would agree that TSJ is suffering irreparable harm by not being able to play thereby diminishing his NBA and All American chances, which heavily impact his future earnings. All the Judge needs to do is grant the TRO to keep TSJ from suffering that irreparable harm until the Court can hold a hearing on an actual preliminary injunction prohibiting the University holding Terrance out from playing. I see this as a brilliant legal strategy because it overcomes the inherent delay in the criminal court proceedings and University policy during the relatively short rest of the basketball season. and allows the university coverage because they are under a court order once the TRO is entered, which should allow him to play for the next two weeks after which it is very likely that a permanent injunction could be entered, depending on how hard the University's lawyers choose to fight it. (cough cough).
Sorry that it has to come to this, but TSJ's future is at stake and in the absence of any of us knowing what happened he is entitled to the presumption of innocence.
Apparently her knees were restrained by how crowded it was, and she didn't want to waste a good drink by throwing it in his face.
Terrific post. Thank you.
To your question, I believe WCIA reported the affidavit was released as part of the documents from TSJ's attorneys. Seems right. Everything hit at about the same time.
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As my grandfather used to say......"them's fightin' words "
The ebbs and flows of this situation is unreal. A part of me says...
One part of me says:
He's innocent, he got caught up in the middle of political stance by a psycho DA and he needs to do what's right to continue his life.
After seeing this, a part of me says:
We know he's innocent, clear his name in the courts, don't get into a smearing campaign and prepare for the NBA.
That's based solely on that statement. The school is not going to allow itself to get punked on a national stage and set precedent for these future issues.
That said....the players got a case in front of the Supreme Court and now we live the life of NIL and portal off-seasons. Who knows.
Ugh......Debbie Downer
This has happened in the NFL before.
Collective bargaining mostly eliminated it.
But yes, TROs and court decisions can cause employers to have to reverse employment decisions.
I know we probably won't have an answer to this but I thought this was an interesting point brought up when the charges were first announced: Would there be a "morals" clause tied to NIL money?
Yeah that reminds me of the "Half Measures" episode of Breaking Bad
I just finally got around to reading the victim's side of the story, I have a couple of questions:
1. I do not really understand how they were able to charge TSJ. I'm obviously no legal expert, but doesn't there need to be probable cause? and assuming there does, what would it have been from this document?
2. it says the affidavit was signed on 10/4, but he was not charged until recently, is this normal?
1. I do not really understand how they were able to charge TSJ. I'm obviously no legal expert, but doesn't there need to be probable cause? and assuming there does, what would it have been from this document?
2. it says the affidavit was signed on 10/4, but he was not charged until recently, is this normal?
After reading the report, it sounds like there is no physical evidence, witnesses, or recording of the incident. I mean, I hope it's not true, but even if it is, how do you even begin to prosecute this?
As far as the restraining order, I am without a doubt certain that the U of I is saying, we are going to protect ourselves by saying he can't play. You file a restraining order that can get him to play, while that is being reviewed and processed, we will continue to work on getting everything dropped/actually reinstated.
All you have is two people in possible proximity where no witnesses or actual evidence point to any wrongdoing. The fact it got this far is kind of crazy.
As far as the restraining order, I am without a doubt certain that the U of I is saying, we are going to protect ourselves by saying he can't play. You file a restraining order that can get him to play, while that is being reviewed and processed, we will continue to work on getting everything dropped/actually reinstated.
All you have is two people in possible proximity where no witnesses or actual evidence point to any wrongdoing. The fact it got this far is kind of crazy.
Man, there are a lot of comments on this thread that are perfect examples of why many sexual assault victims do not report. It’s very sad.
I don’t know if this is a legitimate sexual assault or not. None of us do. But some people need to better educate themselves on the myriad of ways that real victims respond in different circumstances. Just because a victim does not respond the way that you think they should, does not mean that an assault didn’t happen.
Again, I truly hope that an assault did not occur in this instance. False accusations really do exist, and it is awful when it happens. But unfortunately, it is far more common for an assault to occur, and the victim not be believed or for the victim to be so scared that they don’t even report.
I don’t know if this is a legitimate sexual assault or not. None of us do. But some people need to better educate themselves on the myriad of ways that real victims respond in different circumstances. Just because a victim does not respond the way that you think they should, does not mean that an assault didn’t happen.
Again, I truly hope that an assault did not occur in this instance. False accusations really do exist, and it is awful when it happens. But unfortunately, it is far more common for an assault to occur, and the victim not be believed or for the victim to be so scared that they don’t even report.
And legal action is why Curbelo is now actively playing (and well, good for him) for Southern Miss.
You're correct that the DIA policy violates his right to due process, not because there's no presumption of innocence or fact finding, but because it afforded Shannon no right to be present and participate in the hearing before they ruled. I think a Judge will have a difficult time finding that a student athlete should be treated any differently than any other student.
I say let him play
Of course it is not probable cause. This is a felony and in illinois you can make an arrest for probable cause. If this all happened immediately and know immediately can you imagine a police officer putting the cuffs on and hauling him off to jail right then. So preposterous it does not warrant further discussion. This happened in September and they filed in January? This is the DA having her hand in this. Those are your facts, your best facts and no grand jury? So you decide to file charges. You hand craft an affidavit. Get the lead investigator to sign it. File with the judge who spends 30 seconds reading it and you have your arrest warrant. But that is not real probable cause. Not grand jury or preliminary hearing probable cause anyway. On the TRO. Smart and here is why. Absolutely no lose. So what has to be proved. Well for starters irreparable harm. Forgot April. Does anyone think this DA would have a problem slow playing this until June, draft time? Irreparable harm is a slam dunk. The university is going to dig their heels in. They have to. They absolutely have to take the position they have the right to discipline as long as not arbitrary and capricious, no violation of constitutional rights including due process etc. Now if this was King Josh by himself that would be a no go but the committee is his due process. This was all good. But there is a difference between challenging the authority of the university and were they right. I concede the process was proper. Proper because criminal charges were filed an arrest warrant issued based on probable cause is another story. I put that whole sordid den of inequality otherwise known as the Douglas County DA office on trial. All they have is that piece of manure charging affidavit. Let's see if an illinois judge thinks that is probable cause. Best shot here. I see no deal. I see no dismissing of the charges here in time to do any good. This is so far outside justice, fair dealing, good faith and whatever else you throw in. Forget jail. Time. Time is what destroys him and she knows it. If the tro is granted it is effective when the ink is dry. He can suit up immediately. The preliminary injunction is likely made permanent in 14 days. She loses and reluctantly I have come to the conclusion that is really what this is all about
I also don't think that this request for a restraining order is likely to succeed. Perhaps because it is a public university, there are avenues of recourse available, but I'm not even sure what the court would need to find in this case to grant the order. Does it need to say the university policy is infringing on TJ's rights in some way? I would think the entire policy would need to be found as impermissible. Would a policy that blanketly says anyone arrested for a felony is suspended until the charges are resolved be permissible? I have a hard time believing that a court would say that is not permitted, but it seems like the university's policy is more favorable to the student than that. I find it difficult to believe that a court would say a university should have no leeway in these situations to suspend an athlete. And if a university is permitted to do that, what exactly about this policy makes it unacceptable?
I previously believed that the 3 person panel rescinding the suspension was his most likely avenue to returning to the team this season. My biggest concern is that TJ's attorney filed this motion because they no longer believe the 3 person panel will allow him to play without resolution of the criminal charges. If that's the case, and this TRO fails, we are stuck hoping that the charges are dropped or reduced.
Hopefully TJ is innocent and he is able to get back on the court by any of the available means. I just don't feel like this is the good sign some people seem to believe it is. Hope I'm wrong!
I previously believed that the 3 person panel rescinding the suspension was his most likely avenue to returning to the team this season. My biggest concern is that TJ's attorney filed this motion because they no longer believe the 3 person panel will allow him to play without resolution of the criminal charges. If that's the case, and this TRO fails, we are stuck hoping that the charges are dropped or reduced.
Hopefully TJ is innocent and he is able to get back on the court by any of the available means. I just don't feel like this is the good sign some people seem to believe it is. Hope I'm wrong!
If you read the lawsuit against UUIC, you may have a different opinion. It's laid out quite clearly why the suspension is illegal and it's for all those reasons.
Ultimately of course a judge will decide.
Also "he said: she said" doesn't work so well when nobody in a crowded bar or the cameras confirm what she said actually happened
as opposed to "he said: she said" that happened when two people are in a room alone.
Makes me think there wasn't sufficient PC to bring these charges in the first place (I'm not a lawyer)
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