TSJ Thread

[nichi]

The thread was locked before I saw this.

2qtslow wrote:​

Yesterday at 3:43 PM

"D) By far the most important is this: While her friend did not see anything happen, she states that as soon as they left the bar, the alleged victim burst into tears and said she had been sexually assaulted. The victim's conduct throughout is not inconsistent with what can reasonably be expected from a victim under similar circumstances."

Can anyone tell me the source?

Post in thread 'TSJ Thread' https://www.illinoisloyalty.com/post/tsj-thread.33339/post-1992354

 

[ugottabjoshinme]

What is this from? I haven't seen it before.

The university’s response filing to the court.

 

[skyIdub]

It's more like during Thanksgiving dinner where Uncle Bob gets drunk and starts an argument without any actual expertise on the subject.

Well, the overall threads(discussion) yes, In the post I quoted, he's telling me that after all of Uncle Bob's arguments...I should go outside and listen to more from Aunt Karen.

 

[SuperintendentChalmers]

So your position is people give up their due process rights by agreeing to it with compensation?

So as an employer, I can just make up any rule and as long as I pay employees for giving up their rights, it's all good?

IANAL, but I am eligible to be a US Supreme Court Justice.

What do you think happens to an employee who is arrested on a rape charge? Do you think their employer just acts like nothing happened and lets them keep coming to work until the point where they get convicted?

 

[2qtslow]

The thread was locked before I saw this.

2qtslow wrote:​

Yesterday at 3:43 PM

"D) By far the most important is this: While her friend did not see anything happen, she states that as soon as they left the bar, the alleged victim burst into tears and said she had been sexually assaulted. The victim's conduct throughout is not inconsistent with what can reasonably be expected from a victim under similar circumstances."

Can anyone tell me the source?

Post in thread 'TSJ Thread' https://www.illinoisloyalty.com/post/tsj-thread.33339/post-1992354

This is from the statement the friend gave to the police.

 

[PattyOBryant]

sloppy writing
it’s a 7 hr - 8hr drive from KU to UI

I’ve read in multiple areas the NIL meeting was Sunday morning
the game was over at 10:30 on Fri night
they went to the bars from 11pm until 2:30 am on Sat .
they drove home to CU on Sat aft- evening

Man what I wouldn't give to have this type of energy. Their one night was equal to several months of my movement.

 

[IllGuardU]

A scenario that is little discussed is

-TSJ is reinstated
-UofI catch some heat
-TSJ gets drafted
-TSJ beats the charges
-UofI and TSJ come out blooming like a lotus out of the swamp
-Maybe even get a fluff piece or two written about us and the CPL sings our praises

Sounds good to me

 

[winepros]

Have seen many, many trials occur with no real evidence outside of the accuser's testimony. Maybe it's just the jurisdiction here, but an accuser's word seems to carry a great enough weight that they can continue a case. Granted, the bulk of cases I'm familiar with are domestic abuse/battery cases and not rape. Also, I'm not a lawyer.

Not a lawyer either but I've watched enough TV/movies about Innocence Project cases to know how unreliable eye-witness testimony and memory are. According to an OSU study about wrongful convictions, eye-witness testimony is the main evidence in more than half of them. Eye-witness testimony and memory are wrong more than they are right. Also, as a woman who has been assaulted, also after drinking, I'm telling you for a fact that I could not have been a reliable witness to id the guy who assaulted me. I went to the police and looked at pictures of suspects, they all looked like my attacker, and none of them did. Whether it was the alcohol, or the trauma or my mind protecting me, there was no way I could have id-ed the "perp," and certainly couldn't have testified with certainty. It was long before DNA testing, so there was no way they were going to find the guy, I'm pretty sure the cops didn't even try. I went on my life, and it didn't dwell on it. My point is, the accuser is not necessarily a reliable witness here, even though she id'ed TSJ by scrolling through the internet. But based on how brief the encounter was, and how she described it, I have serious doubts th t she can say with certainty that TSJ did this. I can also say, as a woman, what happened to her is not even close to rape. If that had happened to me in a crowded bar, I might have slapped the guy, or thrown a drink in his face, or possibly when I was young, I would have just walked away, upset. But I would have never gone to the police over something so insignificant as what is described here. That sure isn't rape, in my opinion, what's described is barely an assault. My 91 year old mother is even up in arms about this whole thing, and she's not even an Illini fan.

 

[nichi]

This is from the statement the friend gave to the police.

Thank you for the reply. Is that separate from the 4 page affidavit that was recently released? Do you have a link to this statement?

 

[2qtslow]

Thank you for the reply. Is that separate from the 4 page affidavit that was recently released? Do you have a link to this statement?

See reply 54 in yesterday's TSJ thread. The friends statement is one of about 8 million attachments to the UIUC motion to remove.

 

[ever]

Thank you for the reply. Is that separate from the 4 page affidavit that was recently released? Do you have a link to this statement?

I found it in Exhibit B-4 from the document attached to this post: https://www.illinoisloyalty.com/post/tsj-thread.33321/post-1991086.

Edit: and, yes, this is much more detailed than the 4 page affidavit, which is just an overview (but this includes that affidavit as well)

"[Alleged victim's friend] stated after a few moments, [alleged victim] approached her and told her they needed to go. [Friend] stated once they left the Martini room, [alleged victim] told her what the man had done and that she needed to leave. [Friend] stated she didn't understand exactly what [alleged victim] told her but knew she wanted to leave so she wanted to say goodbye to her friend [other friend] before they left. [Friend] stated they reentered the Martini bar from the other door and tried to make their way to [other friend], however [alleged victim] was having a hard time dealing with what happened and turned to leave. [Friend] stated they both walked out of the bar, and [alleged victim] began to cry. [Friend] stated [alleged victim] told her she needed to go home and she felt dirty because of what happened to her"

 

[217Illini217]

Not a lawyer either but I've watched enough TV/movies about Innocence Project cases to know how unreliable eye-witness testimony and memory are. According to an OSU study about wrongful convictions, eye-witness testimony is the main evidence in more than half of them. Eye-witness testimony and memory are wrong more than they are right. Also, as a woman who has been assaulted, also after drinking, I'm telling you for a fact that I could not have been a reliable witness to id the guy who assaulted me. I went to the police and looked at pictures of suspects, they all looked like my attacker, and none of them did. Whether it was the alcohol, or the trauma or my mind protecting me, there was no way I could have id-ed the "perp," and certainly couldn't have testified with certainty. It was long before DNA testing, so there was no way they were going to find the guy, I'm pretty sure the cops didn't even try. I went on my life, and it didn't dwell on it. My point is, the accuser is not necessarily a reliable witness here, even though she id'ed TSJ by scrolling through the internet. But based on how brief the encounter was, and how she described it, I have serious doubts th t she can say with certainty that TSJ did this. I can also say, as a woman, what happened to her is not even close to rape. If that had happened to me in a crowded bar, I might have slapped the guy, or thrown a drink in his face, or possibly when I was young, I would have just walked away, upset. But I would have never gone to the police over something so insignificant as what is described here. That sure isn't rape, in my opinion, what's described is barely an assault. My 91 year old mother is even up in arms about this whole thing, and she's not even an Illini fan.

I'm sorry that you were assaulted, that's terrible you had to go through that trauma but this is a bad take. If someone doesn't consent to it, it's not okay. Label it whatever you want to but it doesn't make it invalid for the victim. I do think that there are holes in the story regarding TSJ from the evidence that is currently provided but lets not try to downplay the seriousness of the alleged act.

 

[ever]

Not a lawyer either but I've watched enough TV/movies about Innocence Project cases to know how unreliable eye-witness testimony and memory are. According to an OSU study about wrongful convictions, eye-witness testimony is the main evidence in more than half of them. Eye-witness testimony and memory are wrong more than they are right. Also, as a woman who has been assaulted, also after drinking, I'm telling you for a fact that I could not have been a reliable witness to id the guy who assaulted me. I went to the police and looked at pictures of suspects, they all looked like my attacker, and none of them did. Whether it was the alcohol, or the trauma or my mind protecting me, there was no way I could have id-ed the "perp," and certainly couldn't have testified with certainty. It was long before DNA testing, so there was no way they were going to find the guy, I'm pretty sure the cops didn't even try. I went on my life, and it didn't dwell on it. My point is, the accuser is not necessarily a reliable witness here, even though she id'ed TSJ by scrolling through the internet. But based on how brief the encounter was, and how she described it, I have serious doubts th t she can say with certainty that TSJ did this.

I think the fact that:
- she noticed some very distinguishing features (height, hair)
- he was with at least one KU player she recognized
- she thought he called her over to him, so she was looking at him and seeking him out as she walked over
- she described his shirt color (assuming it matches the shirt he was wearing in the video)
would all make it very easy for a jury to believe she could identify the correct person. Who knows what the defense has though...maybe they can show that she's lying about something, in which case she becomes much less credible and/or her story might fall apart completely.

 

[SescIllini]

I practiced law for 40+ years.

A basic rule is that you lead with your best argument and spend most of your time on that argument. The first count of TJ's complaint sounds in Title IX, and that is where they spend the bulk of their argument. If they lose on Title IX, IMHO their arguments in the alternative get successively weaker as you go down the list.

Other lawyers have gone into some detail concerning the problems with TJ's Title IX theory, and I think they have it right insofar as they go. But I think UIUC's slam dunk winner argument on Title IX has been ignored so far. Title IX has only one purpose, and that is to prevent sexual discrimination/harassment in college athletics. TJ's complaint does not and cannot allege that he has in any way, shape or form been the victim of sexual discrimination or harassment. Without that premise, I see no way to successfully argue that Title IX has anything to do with this case.

Not a lawyer but it appears many student athlete or even student cases vs. universities are being won by the the students. I think this case will be given a TRO because TSJ has not gone through his proceeding and in effect being punished severely due to the accusations. The University is not the "harmed" party or the accuser and has not done their own investigation. Many cite the "higher standards of student conduct", but once again TSJ has not be proven guilty of any misconduct.

 

[jumpingjack]

One thing I've taken away from all of this is that's a whole lot of tragedy is involved in almost every outcome for somebody very close to this, either in the past or the future.
It just sucks.

 

[Actually...]

A classic example is if I were to ask you who your heroes are and you respond:

“My dad, Brad Underwood, and my uncle.”

Are you just someone who likes the Oxford Comma? Or are you Tyler Underwood and your two heroes are your dad and your uncle?

I have bad news, the Oxford comma is the last comma in a list of three or more items and comes before the conjunction. In your sentence the Oxford comma is the second comma and whether it's there or not it doesn't change the meaning of the sentence. The first comma in your sentence is the one that can change the meaning between your dad and Brad, or Daddy Brad.

 

[JSpence]

I'm sorry that you were assaulted, that's terrible you had to go through that trauma but this is a bad take. If someone doesn't consent to it, it's not okay. Label it whatever you want to but it doesn't make it invalid for the victim. I do think that there are holes in the story regarding TSJ from the evidence that is currently provided but lets not try to downplay the seriousness of the alleged act.

Did you mean this or not?

 

[illinifan1987]

What do you think happens to an employee who is arrested on a rape charge? Do you think their employer just acts like nothing happened and lets them keep coming to work until the point where they get convicted?

There is definitely some exposed tissue after that. You must be a really good SKINNER!!!!

 

[LJ22]

I can also say, as a woman, what happened to her is not even close to rape.

That sure isn't rape, in my opinion, what's described is barely an assault.

Legally, it is.

 

[winepros]

Not a lawyer but it appears many student athlete or even student cases vs. universities are being won by the the students. I think this case will be given a TRO because TSJ has not gone through his proceeding and in effect being punished severely due to the accusations. The University is not the "harmed" party or the accuser and has not done their own investigation. Many cite the "higher standards of student conduct", but once again TSJ has not be proven guilty of any misconduct.

The Amy Comey Barrett ruling with the Purdue student in 2019 that was just filed this morning seems to apply and supports TJ's case (not a lawyer). Probably why the judge had to delay her ruling, researching case law.

 

[winepros]

Legally, it is.

But should it be? I know times have changed but come on...that's not even close to what people are thinking when they hear the charge of rape.

 

[IlliniKat91]

I can also say, as a woman, what happened to her is not even close to rape. If that had happened to me in a crowded bar, I might have slapped the guy, or thrown a drink in his face, or possibly when I was young, I would have just walked away, upset.

I can say as a fellow woman that you don't speak for all of us.

I'm also thankful that your response only has to be theoretical. In my experience, one rarely knows how they'll respond until the situation happens to them.

 

[sdiver68]

What do you think happens to an employee who is arrested on a rape charge? Do you think their employer just acts like nothing happened and lets them keep coming to work until the point where they get convicted?

Depends on the situation. If the employee has a contract, or is is otherwise covered by union or law, there can be all kinds of outcomes. But in many at‐will situations, most employers would suspend or fire.

 

[illini011]

Does TSJ still have court on the 18th?

 

[MULEDOG35]

Depends on the situation. If the employee has a contract, or is is otherwise covered by union or law, there can be all kinds of outcomes. But in many at‐will situations, most employers would suspend or fire.

Depending on if they knew at all.