Huh? Without DNA evidence there is no jury on planet Earth that will convict here (unless some video comes out or something that proves beyond a reasonable doubt he did it).
TSJ Thread
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Huh? Without DNA evidence there is no jury on planet Earth that will convict here (unless some video comes out or something that proves beyond a reasonable doubt he did it).
For those that don’t have the App. The DNA test came back and it was NOT…..TSJs
illini55
- The Villages, FL
Not at all true, unfortunately. I worked in front of juries for 30 years, and convictions/guilty verdicts can be random and unimaginable. When 12 people sit in a room with prejudices formed from who knows where, you can throw logic out the window. This is the main reason most cases resolve prior to trial.
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Yep. If this goes to trial with little more than we know today a jury will decide based on credibility of the accuser and accused. Not sure what would be let in but rest assured both sides will attempt to character assassinate the other.
Whitmans Sampler
- Eastern Iowa
No DNA from TJ? No witnesses? No footage?
This isn’t how I took Kendrick’s comments. I took it as TSJ voluntarily gave a DNA sample. The woman went to the hospital where they did a rape kit and tested her and her clothing for anything. We don’t know if her test results showed another person’s DNA (other than her own). If there was another person’s DNA, and it did not match TSJ, I can’t imagine they would charge him. Most likely, there was no other DNA found and it was TSJ’s own initiative to provide his sample because what else can he do?
Regardless of how this thing eventually turns out... I think that most of Illini Nation could agree that the State of Kansas has been nothing but trouble for The Beloved in more ways than one. And in more years than one.
And come to think of it, Missouri hasn’t been all that great over the years to the Illini either.
What is it about going Southwest from Champaign that's causing such trouble?
Fortunately we have little else to worry about coming at us from the Southwest. Well, nothing – that is – until UCLA and USC start playing Our Beloveds very soon. Then we’ll really find out if that is just a bad direction all the way around. Or if that zone of disruption fades out somewhere in New Mexico.
My sister worked for 10 years in a DNA lab analyzing rape kits (including those for unnatural acts with animals) among other things, so I will ask her about this. I would think that in a case not involving bodily fluids, such as the TSJs case, the V's DNA would so greatly outweigh any DNA from the P that it would require getting lucky to isolate the P's DNA off underwear. If they found third-party DNA that would be exculpatory, but the lack of TSJs DNA would probably not by itself mean a lot.
I have generally been negative about TSJ returning to play, but in trying to think how his legal team could distinguish his case from any other serious allegation, I would argue that his is no more than a "bald allegation" of wrongdoing - (1) the victim is the only witness, (2) of conduct that apparently happened in a busy public place with no other witnesses other than those who observed nothing, (3) there was no interaction alleged other than the criminal conduct, (4) that had to occur within a brief 2 minute window, (4) for which no other physical evidence exists such as DNA or visible injury (if true), (5) for which the victim did not take action against TSJ (slap, throw drink, etc.) or make any report to the bar security personnel or disclose to her friend at the time, (6) for which TSJ cooperated fully with all requests by the police department and denies unequivocally, and (7) which is completely out of character of TSJ based upon testimony of those that know him. While these facts don't irrefutably establish TSJ's innocence, I am sure you could get an expert witness to state that the Lawrence police and DA didn't do a proper investigation before filing the charges (i.e. not interviewing witnesses) and that, based upon evidence available, the possibility of a conviction on those facts is remote. This might be enough for the panel to decide to play TSJ, but not sure it is enough to compel the panel to allow TSJ to play.
The veracity of the victim would be important but probably not available to the panel or court - is she a church choir member, national honor society, student council president sort of person, or just a self-entitled18 year old girl illegally in a bar who might get offended and decide to make an allegation because TSJ blew her off and didn't talk to her or maybe for some other reason? - maybe not even understanding the real consequences of such an action and now facing prosecution for filing a false police report if she recants?
Not sure much can happen at the hearing on the 18th. Have to hope for a miracle that the Kansas DA reconsiders moving forward with the charges, something that would be out of character for her (although she has to consider that ruining a potential lottery picks pro career and not getting a conviction could be career suicide given her other troubles), or the judge steps in somehow.
I have generally been negative about TSJ returning to play, but in trying to think how his legal team could distinguish his case from any other serious allegation, I would argue that his is no more than a "bald allegation" of wrongdoing - (1) the victim is the only witness, (2) of conduct that apparently happened in a busy public place with no other witnesses other than those who observed nothing, (3) there was no interaction alleged other than the criminal conduct, (4) that had to occur within a brief 2 minute window, (4) for which no other physical evidence exists such as DNA or visible injury (if true), (5) for which the victim did not take action against TSJ (slap, throw drink, etc.) or make any report to the bar security personnel or disclose to her friend at the time, (6) for which TSJ cooperated fully with all requests by the police department and denies unequivocally, and (7) which is completely out of character of TSJ based upon testimony of those that know him. While these facts don't irrefutably establish TSJ's innocence, I am sure you could get an expert witness to state that the Lawrence police and DA didn't do a proper investigation before filing the charges (i.e. not interviewing witnesses) and that, based upon evidence available, the possibility of a conviction on those facts is remote. This might be enough for the panel to decide to play TSJ, but not sure it is enough to compel the panel to allow TSJ to play.
The veracity of the victim would be important but probably not available to the panel or court - is she a church choir member, national honor society, student council president sort of person, or just a self-entitled18 year old girl illegally in a bar who might get offended and decide to make an allegation because TSJ blew her off and didn't talk to her or maybe for some other reason? - maybe not even understanding the real consequences of such an action and now facing prosecution for filing a false police report if she recants?
Not sure much can happen at the hearing on the 18th. Have to hope for a miracle that the Kansas DA reconsiders moving forward with the charges, something that would be out of character for her (although she has to consider that ruining a potential lottery picks pro career and not getting a conviction could be career suicide given her other troubles), or the judge steps in somehow.
I know victims often don't go to the police right away but it does raise some questions. With her waiting a day before going to the lpd she would have had time to make it look like she had been assaulted, maybe with help. It's been done before. Not saying that's what happened but that along with the internet searches she made makes it all a little sketchy. This is isn't an obvious she said it happened so it must be true. If it turns out in court that he is guilty then he should be punished accordingly, but until then FREE TSJ!!! This has already done more damage than should be allowed without an actual conviction.
I wear hearing aids because I like my music loud . . .I turn my music up because I wear hearing aids . . .
my amp nowadays (I play bass) is 350w, and weighs only 37# . . . My Ampeg SVT never leaves the studio . . .
I wanted to post on the previous two threads but both closed before I could comment. I find it very troubling that so many people are okay with TSJ being suspended without due process. My first instinct is that he doesn't seem like the guy to do this. Of course I don't know him personally and could be wrong BUT the DIA does not make legal conclusions but is nevertheless willing to punish him subject to a later determination. I don't buy the argument that he is not being harmed by the University suspending him. Regardless of financial implications of NIL and his NBA prospects he is harmed in not being able to play college basketball. That is no small thing! Other than claiming his innocence, I don't know if TSJ has mounted a defense and probably has not made much public in that regard (nor should he prior to an actual trial). If TSJ broke a specific team rule then the University is justified in suspending him. If they are just suspending him because of a charge against him then I say no way. Even this is elevated from the initial phase of an allegation, it only is elevated to the level of credible allegation based on the available evidence. As an example it could have been reported that the accuser had a witness that corroborates the story...... then it is later discovered this same witness previously conspired to blackmail somebody? None of us knows for sure. If this woman is telling the truth then I praise her courage m If she is lying I hope she pays a huge price. If TSJ did this I hope he is held accountable. It's possible that if the goes to a jury trial that the jury gets it wrong. Convicts an innocent man or let's a guilty man go free.... but the best we can hope to do is give due process.... that is not what is happening here. There is a reason we require guilt beyond a reasonable doubt for criminal charges. Can you imagine going to prison for a crime you didn't commit because a jury believed an accuser even though there was no direct physical evidence that you committed the crime? Innocent until proven guilty has become a fantasy anymore.... I will accept whatever outcome results from a fair due process..... punishing somebody before this occurs (and make no mistake, that is what is occurring) is wrong .... at worst the alleged perpetrator would be free to live his life until found guilty by a jury of his peers ....
Maybe not if he is guilty or not. That is a final determination made in another forum. The reason he was suspended is because there is credible evidence he committed a serious crime. That means you must conclude and no ifs, the way this case was investigated and prosecuted by Douglas County is, in fact credible. With what I have seen, for me that is a bridge too far
I hope it fades out before Arizona
I am not sure how else you can take the exact words of what the man said. But to each their own.
sacraig
- The desert
Oh joy......we're back to fingering and DNA talk....
1m4tr
Cliffmas
No this is the 5th.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
TBF, doesn’t Dan (wisely) pretty much make us start over every time we play?? There will be as many threads as remaining games until this goes away (if it does).
DNA analyst here for a state crime lab. Touch DNA from 5 seconds of insertion seems highly unlikely that any male DNA to be detected. Not sure how quickly she got her kit taken. We have great success with sperm because we can fairly easily separate sperm cells from a victims skin cells and then we can isolate a male profile. If there is a very small amount of male DNA from just touch then usually the large amount of female DNA that is present on the swabbing overwhelms the small amount of male DNA present. Even if male DNA were detected in a Quant it could possibly not show at all in a DNA profile. We can use YSTRs to amplify only the male DNA but it is not as discriminating. Males share the same ystr profile with their male relatives and possibly seemingly unknown, unrelated people.
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Oh. I might prefer to live on that planet Earth instead of this one. Have you got a brochure?
What we do know is we have a story that makes no sense. A cute guy waved at me and I want to go back and talk to him. He has another girl in his arm but that’s ok. I will go over by myself and you, my friend that I’m with, wait here. Instead of saying hey I think you’re cute, just grab my butt and pull me over and assault me. I’m out of here let’s go. I was assaulted so let’s look up how bad the charge is. I’m pretty sure he’s an athlete so let’s look up who he is. Now that I’ve done my own investigation let’s go to the police.
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