TSJ Thread

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#101      
So this touches on why I found the judge's decision to be kind of confused and misguided. Whitman made clear in his presser that TSJ was subject to three parallel proceedings:

1. The criminal case in Kansas, adjudicating his freedom from criminal punishment
2. The student discipline process, adjudicating his status as a UI student (and athletic scholarship holder)
3. The DIA process, adjudicating solely and exclusively his ability to participate in athletic activities (not any of his other financial or other benefits as a scholarship athlete)

The decision constantly conflates 2 and 3, and essentially rules that process #3 can only occur AFTER process #2. There is no mention or understanding that they apply to different things. Nor that the student panel kicking him out of school would render the DIA process moot by definition.

The reason that doesn't make a whole lot of sense is the reason that I don't really see the student discipline process as a likely issue - the alleged events did not take place on the UI campus or within its reach or jurisdiction!

One major aspect of these modern student discipline processes, especially when they involve sexual assault like this, is to protect the victim. There is no victim in Champaign to protect. Nor do any campus-bound investigative resources have anything to offer here, I don't see how they would have access to any testimony from the alleged victim, they certainly can't compel her to give any.

Absent a final adjudication in Kansas (which they won't have in time), I don't know what a UI panel would have to kick TSJ out of school and take away his concrete scholarship benefits.

That contrasts with the DIA process which plainly and unapologetically exists to protect the Fighting Illini brand from the harm of bad publicity. Two completely different things.

But now a federal court has ruled that where a suspension harms a revenue sport player's online mock draft positioning, a college sports program is legally compelled to tolerate the ugly and uncomfortable PR nightmare of its star player being on trial for rape.

I hope that brings us on-court success, but as a matter of law I find it truly befuddling, and I am certain Josh Whitman (not to mention the poor UI counsel with egg dripping down the side of their face) does too.

The three pronged process (to include the face saving) is all just a product of what the school created and what TSJ signed off on when he signed his scholarship paperwork.

But that doesn’t make it legally separate from a star player’s earning potential (NIL) or the “once-in-a-lifetime” opportunity the draft provides. At least not in the opinion of the federal judge.

We are in uncharted territory, especially with NIL and potential draft earnings making things more ambiguous creating more space for judicial interpretation.

JW and the panel didn’t realize they were lost in the woods until Judge Lawless showed up with a map.
 
#103      
Barring something epic changing in this case, the school will not suspend him and he will play the rest of the season
Probably is a weight off of TSJ’s shoulders knowing he can focus on basketball for the rest of the season
 
#104      
The very last line of the Order says. Just before the judges signature.

"This Order shall remain in effect until modified or terminated by a subsequent order."

I should have added, yes the UI can go through the OSCR Policy, but then they still have to ask the court to modify the order.
Since the order itself includes the exception for OSCR Policy, there would be no need to modify the order if UIUC chooses to follow that path. UIUC may think it's too fine a line to take that risk, but that's another issue.

We're going in circles, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
#105      
So this touches on why I found the judge's decision to be kind of confused and misguided. Whitman made clear in his presser that TSJ was subject to three parallel proceedings:

1. The criminal case in Kansas, adjudicating his freedom from criminal punishment
2. The student discipline process, adjudicating his status as a UI student (and athletic scholarship holder)
3. The DIA process, adjudicating solely and exclusively his ability to participate in athletic activities (not any of his other financial or other benefits as a scholarship athlete)

The decision constantly conflates 2 and 3, and essentially rules that process #3 can only occur AFTER process #2. There is no mention or understanding that they apply to different things. Nor that the student panel kicking him out of school would render the DIA process moot by definition.

The three pronged process (to include the face saving) is all just a product of what the school created and what TSJ signed off on when he signed his scholarship paperwork.

But that doesn’t make it legally separate from a star player’s earning potential (NIL) or the “once-in-a-lifetime” opportunity the draft provides. At least not in the opinion of the federal judge.

In one section of the ruling, the judge considered any violation of TSJ's property rights in the form of his scholarship contract with UIUC/DIA. Here, the judge highlighted an ambiguous phrase in DIA Policy that could indirectly promise the due process of OSCR Policy. I agree that this was likely not the intent of DIA policy, but the judge couldn't rule that out. For future situations, they could re-word this part of DIA policy to avoid any appearance of this violation.

Separately, and much more broadly, the judge considered any violation of TSJ's liberty in the form of a state officer (state school president) harming his reputation and affecting his status in a way that severely limits future employment. UIUC didn't do/say nearly as much to harm his reputation as the other cases cited by the judge (in those, the university investigated then suspended based on their findings, whereas UIUC merely deferred to the charges), so it isn't clear exactly what's allowed and what isn't. I can only suppose that UIUC said enough about the rape accusation and what the DIA panel considered, so the decision to suspend would reasonably be perceived as a determination of his potential guilt. I wonder if a hard policy of suspending athletes charged with certain crimes and saying something like "no comment pending the legal case" would sufficiently avoid this violation.
 
#106      

derrick6

Illini Dawg
Seattle
Barring something epic changing in this case, the school will not suspend him and he will play the rest of the season
How many times, and different ways must you say this to stop this wild speculation around here? It must be tiring for you but I appreciate it.

I suppose it’s just message board talk but I for one am choosing to move on, let the legal process play out, while fully supporting TSJ, Underwood, and even the University and it’s enforcement of policy and eventual compliance to the TRO. Guilt free. Anxiety free.
 
#107      
But now a federal court has ruled that where a suspension harms a revenue sport player's online mock draft positioning, a college sports program is legally compelled to tolerate the ugly and uncomfortable PR nightmare of its star player being on trial for rape.

I hope that brings us on-court success, but as a matter of law I find it truly befuddling, and I am certain Josh Whitman (not to mention the poor UI counsel with egg dripping down the side of their face) does too.
Though happy with the on-court result, I'm befuddled too. Mainly thinking about the precedent this case could set. If the fact pattern was different, and we had a superstar athlete pull a Ray Rice and beat the bleep out of someone on camera, the University really has no recourse to suspend or expel an athlete? Because really the charge in this case could be been just about anything, with or without lots of evidence, and any suspension should be overturned because of the lack of due process.
 
#108      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
But that doesn’t make it legally separate from a star player’s earning potential (NIL) or the “once-in-a-lifetime” opportunity the draft provides. At least not in the opinion of the federal judge.
So these are the two other things that really bothered me about the decision's reasoning.

First, there's no question a suspension costing Shannon NIL money is something UI could wind up legally liable for, and that's new ground in college sports. But one of the main qualifications for getting a TRO is the lack of an adequate remedy at law, aka the issue can't be resolved by money. NIL very obviously can, that is a reparable harm that could be handled in a year or whatever.

Second, beyond the kind of shocking sloppiness of drawing a conclusion from two Bleacher Report mock drafts, the idea that merely not playing the remaining games does some sort of large definite harm to TSJ's draft standing is at best highly contestable and arguably completely untrue? The negative impact to his prospective draft status is because he was charged with felony rape! As a matter of his NBA prospects, supposing for the sake of argument that the Kansas charges were dropped between the end of the season and the draft, the last impression TSJ left on film was outstanding and would put him in fantastic draft shape, pro scouts DO NOT CARE ONE LITTLE BIT about how Illinois' season turns out. Sure there's some potential to have more great performances against top opponents, but in Shannon's case the remainder of the season after the charges were filed very obviously presented more potential downside than upside to his then-career-high NBA stock.

Since the order itself includes the exception for OSCR Policy, there would be no need to modify the order if UIUC chooses to follow that path. UIUC may think it's too fine a line to take that risk, but that's another issue.

We're going in circles, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
As Whitman and the decision made clear, the OSCR process is already active and ongoing, and could hypothetically result in Shannon being kicked out of school, which would render any DIA decision making moot.

The decision also states: "Defendants are enjoined from suspending Plaintiff from the basketball team without at least affording him the protections of the OSCR Policy." so that OSCR process can in theory proceed and reach its conclusion without being impacted by the TRO.

But both for timeline reasons and the inability for UI to meaningfully investigate an event that occurred out of state involving non-UI people who live nowhere near Champaign and can't be compelled to offer evidence, I don't really see how that's going to prevent TSJ from finishing the season. Based on what the insiders are saying that seems to be the expectation within the team as well (though, I will just note, the team's expectations have been upended in this saga before).

Though happy with the on-court result, I'm befuddled too. Mainly thinking about the precedent this case could set. If the fact pattern was different, and we had a superstar athlete pull a Ray Rice and beat the bleep out of someone on camera, the University really has no recourse to suspend or expel an athlete? Because really the charge in this case could be been just about anything, with or without lots of evidence, and any suspension should be overturned because of the lack of due process.
"Hard cases make bad law" as the saying goes...
 
#109      
So these are the two other things that really bothered me about the decision's reasoning.

First, there's no question a suspension costing Shannon NIL money is something UI could wind up legally liable for, and that's new ground in college sports. But one of the main qualifications for getting a TRO is the lack of an adequate remedy at law, aka the issue can't be resolved by money. NIL very obviously can, that is a reparable harm that could be handled in a year or whatever.

Second, beyond the kind of shocking sloppiness of drawing a conclusion from two Bleacher Report mock drafts, the idea that merely not playing the remaining games does some sort of large definite harm to TSJ's draft standing is at best highly contestable and arguably completely untrue? The negative impact to his prospective draft status is because he was charged with felony rape! As a matter of his NBA prospects, supposing for the sake of argument that the Kansas charges were dropped between the end of the season and the draft, the last impression TSJ left on film was outstanding and would put him in fantastic draft shape, pro scouts DO NOT CARE ONE LITTLE BIT about how Illinois' season turns out. Sure there's some potential to have more great performances against top opponents, but in Shannon's case the remainder of the season after the charges were filed very obviously presented more potential downside than upside to his then-career-high NBA stock.


As Whitman and the decision made clear, the OSCR process is already active and ongoing, and could hypothetically result in Shannon being kicked out of school, which would render any DIA decision making moot.

The decision also states: "Defendants are enjoined from suspending Plaintiff from the basketball team without at least affording him the protections of the OSCR Policy." so that OSCR process can in theory proceed and reach its conclusion without being impacted by the TRO.

But both for timeline reasons and the inability for UI to meaningfully investigate an event that occurred out of state involving non-UI people who live nowhere near Champaign and can't be compelled to offer evidence, I don't really see how that's going to prevent TSJ from finishing the season. Based on what the insiders are saying that seems to be the expectation within the team as well (though, I will just note, the team's expectations have been upended in this saga before).


"Hard cases make bad law" as the saying goes...
OSCR has plenty of due process for sure but due process takes time. There is right to a hearing then an appeal much less the DA has the accuser under wraps and she is not coming to Champaign. Finding of probable cause might be enough but the preliminary hearing is now set fot after the season
 
#110      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
By the way, this story at ESPN kinda came and went, it has a dumb tone of trying to accuse UI of covering up knowledge of the incident or something, while the underlying reporting show everyone in both Champaign and Lawrence acting with the utmost tact and professionalism. But there is stuff here that hasn't otherwise been reported to my knowledge:


Anyway, this paragraph particularly jumped out at me:

On Oct. 24, Briggs emailed Leitner asking for an update in Shannon's case. Leitner responded the same day, saying, "Unfortunately I don't have any update for you. I anticipate he either was charged or will be soon." Leitner added that he had submitted DNA for analysis "but it could be some time before we have results."
That could explain a great deal about why events in this case have occurred on the timeline that they have.
 
#111      
Agreed with other seemingly attorney takes that the order would not prevent them suspending under a different process and agree that this is unlikely to happen. I assume tsjs lawyers could do things to delay the OSCR process until after the season especially if the preliminary is not until may. Barring any new material evidence implicating tsj in the interim I assume he plays the rest of the season. Plus U of I is likely going to have to reexamine some of its policies and maybe draft new ones which I assume does not happen overnight.
 
#112      
Though happy with the on-court result, I'm befuddled too. Mainly thinking about the precedent this case could set. If the fact pattern was different, and we had a superstar athlete pull a Ray Rice and beat the bleep out of someone on camera, the University really has no recourse to suspend or expel an athlete? Because really the charge in this case could be been just about anything, with or without lots of evidence, and any suspension should be overturned because of the lack of due process.
I am also concerned about this precedent swinging too far the other way.

Fortunately, the judge pointed out that UIUC evidently didn't think TSJ was a risk to others on campus since he was allowed to continue attending classes, access facilities, etc. Instead, the suspension was merely about UIUC's reputation or a show of support for sexual assault victims.

So at the least, if a superstar athlete is perceived to be a danger to others, a university could hopefully act quickly to protect others. And perhaps even if there isn't much risk to others (Ray Rice was likely only a risk to his fiancee), perhaps the "reputational" harm to the university from a viral video like that would seem great enough to justify action.
 
#113      
Now that the DA doesn't have basketball to strongarm TSJ into admitting to a lesser crime or seek a settlement, she'll need to make a case to get this to trial. And if she doesn't have the necessary evidence, witnesses, or testimony, and the investigation was as flawed as it appears thus far, then really the only thing she has left is time. Time to either find additional evidence or let this fade enough out of public consciousness to quietly drop the charges. We'll see if the DA actually has any strength to the case once the subpoenaed evidence gets to the defense next week. I'm guessing no, otherwise she and the Lawrence PD would've made a statement, and if that is indeed the case, I'd be surprised if it ever makes it to that May date.
This. All of this
 
#114      
Agreed with other seemingly attorney takes that the order would not prevent them suspending under a different process and agree that this is unlikely to happen. I assume tsjs lawyers could do things to delay the OSCR process until after the season especially if the preliminary is not until may. Barring any new material evidence implicating tsj in the interim I assume he plays the rest of the season. Plus U of I is likely going to have to reexamine some of its policies and maybe draft new ones which I assume does not happen overnight.
My impression is that real due process won't happen unless and until the OSCR is able to get the complainant to come to CU and testify under oath subject to cross-examination. I don't think that will ever happen.
 
#115      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL

From the recently former Dean of the UI College of Law, slapping down Gary Parrish's notion that BU ought to bench Shannon.

His views on the TRO aren't mine, and I actually find his analysis of the benching question a bit muddy too, I just think it's interesting to note as a perspective that doesn't line up with a lot of people's stereotypes of how the UI leadership and administration thinks about our revenue sports teams.

On the substance of it, in all phases of this saga it has been made crystal clear that Underwood has no discretion in any of these processes, these are issues above his head and his job is to coach the eligible players he's got at any given moment without reference to issues outside his purview. That seems like a sensible balance to me and definitely protects him from this sort of nonsense.
 
#119      
article is a must read for anyone that read/wrote comments pre- or post- court ruling. link should be sent to Parrish and others.
Pretty much sums up the situation in two sentences: "A zero-tolerance policy for sexual misconduct is one thing. A zero-tolerance policy for being accused of sexual misconduct is quite another, at least from the perspective of due process."
 
#124      
Not sure continuing to debate with Parrish is wise. It will only give him an opportunity to be obtuse in order to gain more clicks. Let him fade into oblivion where he belongs.
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