Rocky the Flying Squirrel
Update: D.J. Williams back with Illini
Rocky the Flying Squirrel
You're speaking awfully conclusively on DJW for a guy who has less than 500 total minutes, largely in garbage time. And since his freshman year of HS, really? The kid made it to D1 and won state titles at Simeon. You and Ken are both going over the top, here. DJW has shown nice things occasionally in limited minutes, and led his senior year Simeon team.
Clearly you are on team Groce, that's fine, some folks side with the coach and some the players. Personally, I think DJW (and all scholarship players) ought to receive minutes at least throughout the non-con for the sake of their development. DJW has been in the program two years, did not redshirt, and has less MPG his sophomore year than his freshman year despite adding no competition at his position (3) in the offseason, and no negative reports on his work ethic (despite you continuing to claim that) from practice/media. I can see why he may be frustrated. Regardless, this is all moot until we receive more information on this story.
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I would be interested in hearing one coach that uses this tactic...
Of young guys getting minutes in the garbage games? Robert wrote an article on it after the FSU game, man. Happens all over the place, why play your best guys 30+ minutes against McKendree and all the other junk in the non-con?
I just assumed you were talking about meaningful minutes during non-garbage time. Don't we typically put everyone in during garbage time?
Realistically, games against the junk of the non-con should essentially be 40 minutes garbage time, and allow bigger minutes for those guys. It doesn't always work out that way, obviously, but there should certainly occur more often than not.
DJW averaged 10.6 MPG last year and this year only has 5 games in double digit minutes, with 5 of 6 or less to match. I can see why that would be a little frustrating, that little consistency from the coaches (for those of you emphasizing consistency) really makes it hard to maintain any sort of rhythm as a player, so I can understand any budding frustration with that.
The only minutes we lost from last year are Nunn's minutes. On the flip side, we have added Abrams, Black, Kipper, Lucas, and Thorne into the mix to grab minutes this year... DJW has more people to battle with to get minutes this year. I would love to see him come back, fight through this and earn more tic.
None of those 5 play the 3 position
That is a silly position.
First, Kipper does. Second, you are comparing last year's time to this years. Hill played 70% of his minutes last year as a 4, so there were many more minutes available at the 3, for DJ or anyone else.
I agree with you that he could have played more minutes this year (personally think Hill could play more 2, TA less 2 more 1). But there is more competition at the 3 and 4 this year than last.
Kipper will likely play some 3. Having Black & Thorne in the rotation moves Hill out of the 4 and into the 3. Abrams & Lucas also effectively mean Hill never plays the 1 either...so they all impact minutes available at the 3.
One of the reasons we all used to explain Kipper not playing sufficient minutes is that Groce groomed him as a 4, and there's been no mention he's been taught how to play the 3 (which matters significantly less to me than it does to Groce). I may be wrong on this, but has Kipper played a single minute at the 3 yet? I don't recall that, but could of course be wrong -- I thought he played his minutes at the 4 yesterday.
And regardless, it's really just him, MH, and maybe Kipper at 3, so there still should've been 10 a game available for him, at least in non-con while KN wasn't shifting the rotation
LOL as if the being in the minority opinion means anything and I would stop stating it because you dont agree with it
What he did in HS is irrelevant because hes not in HS anymore and I havent seen any indication that DJW was not playing because he didnt work had or had no worth ethic as you claim . Telling me what he did as a 16 year old is pointless show me where he hasnt worked hard the last 18 months .
The PG stuff is very relevant and I shouldnt have to explain why but Ill do it anyway .
The ball was moving last night with TJL in and we were forcing the defense more than we had been in any previous game . The slow rotations from a bad defensive team opens up offensive rebounding opportunities .
7 of Kippers points were assisted
4 more were from following his own misses
but more importantly he played 19 minutes something DJ has yet to do even when JCL and TJL were still just coming back from injuries and Black AND Kipper were both still unavailable .He also had 9 shot attempts something DJ has never even been on the floor long enough to do in 2 seasons.
DJ has played well in several non-conference games this season but his minutes were never consistent and he was never given as many Kipper or TJL received even after having a good outing.
I recall DJ playing well in back to back games Mckendree and then Detroit playing 14 mpg in each despite what I just pointed out above . Groce after the Detroit game said he felt DJ had his best overall performance of the season .
He then played DJ 3 minutes in the next game against Winthrop.
But hey if you bring it you get rewarded :thumb:
Have to assume there is something he is not doing or he would be playing. He hasn't shown enough in games to remove any questions and who knows what is happening in practice. I always hope it provides motivation to give more rather than quit. We will see what happens. Some guys are fighters and some are quitters. Fighters tend to be more successful.
And Bullwinkle the Moose!
gecIllini
- Colorado
Wait, I thought it was always Bush's fault
MrOizo
- Chicago
Well said. I agree, I've liked what I've seen from limited time. And as a note, practicing hard is a factor but needs to be taken as a factor, not THE rule. There are some notorious players that were so-so in practice but good in games. I know I know, and yes I always love a hard working player who brings it all the time. But at some point, the "carrot and stick" needs to be acknowledged as not working at times.
DJW is what he is and I doubt he has changed. He was recruited, it's up to our coaches to get the most out of him by whatever means are most effective. Maybe he's a unique case but I doubt it.
Groce does not reward excellence or fight.
If he did, Kipper and TJL would be starting.
I hope DJ can work through what he's facing and rejoin our Illini soon.
I think Kipper clearly earned his minutes with his consistent effort when we were getting smoked by IU.
Clearly DJW can't get out of JG'd doghouse, but I think even Groce would spell out if you want to see the floor I need to see AB&C and not XYZ. I obviously am not there, but I don't think JG is unfair at handing out minutes. Don't recall anyone aside from DJ's mom complaining of this.
Not saying JG is doing a stellar job, but don't think DJ's lack of minutes, with or without a stellar point guard are anyone's fault but DJ's. Everyone would look better, JG included, and the team would have been much more successful with a great point guard.
If we are mentioning high school, didn't DJ have experience with the board's favorite point guard then?
I wish all our recruits to be successful, the team, the coach.....
Maybe if DJ can "pull a rabbit out of my hat, nothing up my sleeve! No doubt about it, I got to get another hat."
Go Illini!
Clearly DJW can't get out of JG'd doghouse, but I think even Groce would spell out if you want to see the floor I need to see AB&C and not XYZ. I obviously am not there, but I don't think JG is unfair at handing out minutes. Don't recall anyone aside from DJ's mom complaining of this.
Not saying JG is doing a stellar job, but don't think DJ's lack of minutes, with or without a stellar point guard are anyone's fault but DJ's. Everyone would look better, JG included, and the team would have been much more successful with a great point guard.
If we are mentioning high school, didn't DJ have experience with the board's favorite point guard then?
I wish all our recruits to be successful, the team, the coach.....
Maybe if DJ can "pull a rabbit out of my hat, nothing up my sleeve! No doubt about it, I got to get another hat."
Go Illini!
I think Kipper clearly earned his minutes with his consistent effort when we were getting smoked by IU.
Clearly DJW can't get out of JG'd doghouse, but I think even Groce would spell out if you want to see the floor I need to see AB&C and not XYZ. I obviously am not there, but I don't think JG is unfair at handing out minutes. Don't recall anyone aside from DJ's mom complaining of this.
Not saying JG is doing a stellar job, but don't think DJ's lack of minutes, with or without a stellar point guard are anyone's fault but DJ's. Everyone would look better, JG included, and the team would have been much more successful with a great point guard.
If we are mentioning high school, didn't DJ have experience with the board's favorite point guard then?
I wish all our recruits to be successful, the team, the coach.....
Maybe if DJ can "pull a rabbit out of my hat, nothing up my sleeve! No doubt about it, I got to get another hat."
Go Illini!
First time to this board?
My thoughts are that the kid needs to do what he thinks is best for him. I just hope he's acting in a way that makes him happy rather than in a way that makes his mom happy. Too many young people are completely consumed by doing what mommy or daddy says. I'm not accusing DJ of this. But I do worry when a parent is so outspoken.
MrOizo
- Chicago
This is interesting and reminds me of Roger Powell or perhaps Morrow. If you can create a mismatch and have the player that is more aggressive/assertive, you can get the benefit of the mismatch more often than not.
Sample size is too small, but I feel like Kipper is the perfect undersized 4. We will see how it goes, but I love the mismatch he creates.
In the same train of thought, DJW seems to a 3 all the way. I think switching them should happen (that versatility should be there for both), but I'm very happy with the idea of both.
MrOizo
- Chicago
:thumb:
Agree completely, I hope he sees that this is his best opportunity. Tons of minutes next year with Malcolm gone and no one but freshman. Hang in there, DJ!
Agree on Kipper. Especially if he can't hit the kick out 3s. Also if he's comfortable taking a dribble or 2 attacking the rim, those two skills would complement each other nicely.
I agree I have always seen DJ as a 3 and nothing else. Because of this, I think his lack of positional versatility and the potential motor issues hurt his chances. Not a good enough handles to be a 1 or shooter to be a 2, not strong enough to be 4. But ideal height and length and good athleticism for the 3. Some kids just put it all together late. Maybe he's gonna be one of them.
We should know on a decision next week.
This is sad to say, but from the outside looking in, it looks more like Groce waited for others to fail, rather than having guys earn minutes.
One of my criticisms of Groce (and many have shared the same) is how little PT he gives young guys. They need enough PT to make their mistakes and figure things out. That's gonna be different for every guy. If they think the first mistake they lose what little precious PT they have, it's gonna affect their play adversely. It becomes self-fulfilling. If you give a kid a fair shake, communicate their deficiencies, let them know how high the bar is because of who's ahead of them, that communication will pay off. They won't be complaining as much, and if they disagree, you can point to where the still need improvement. When you see them exceed the guy ahead, you can pat em on the back and give em some reward PT, or whatever lights a fire for that kid. The great thing about this type of approach is it also warns the starters they got someone breathing down their neck, and brings a healthy competition to the team. Personally, I haven't observed Groce has mastered this, but again, I'm an outsider looking in.
Anyway, the good news is that we had a shakeup. The much better news is that it made a huge difference. Hope DJW gets the feedback he needs, and pushes himself to be better. He could theoretically get time in several positions if he's good enough. Seems unlikely to me he'll excel if he takes the transfer way out.
Not really. The players they would start ahead of show a lot of fight, too. Black and Abrams. I like Kipper and Lucas, but you cannot judge their excellence based on one game. They may eventually work their way into the lineup, but let's see them perform well multiple times first.