Goldeneye reference, nice!!
Rocky the Flying Squirrel
Goldeneye reference, nice!!
You are of the minority opinion here. You can't blame Groce for EVERYTHING. Stop denying the fact that the kid has had a questionable motor and work ethic since his freshman year of HS. Players play players. If he brought it more in practice and in games he would have more minutes.
And stop with the PG stuff. Almost all of Kipper's points last night were from out hustling the defense. Things DJW does not do.
You're speaking awfully conclusively on DJW for a guy who has less than 500 total minutes, largely in garbage time. And since his freshman year of HS, really? The kid made it to D1 and won state titles at Simeon. You and Ken are both going over the top, here. DJW has shown nice things occasionally in limited minutes, and led his senior year Simeon team.
Clearly you are on team Groce, that's fine, some folks side with the coach and some the players. Personally, I think DJW (and all scholarship players) ought to receive minutes at least throughout the non-con for the sake of their development. DJW has been in the program two years, did not redshirt, and has less MPG his sophomore year than his freshman year despite adding no competition at his position (3) in the offseason, and no negative reports on his work ethic (despite you continuing to claim that) from practice/media. I can see why he may be frustrated. Regardless, this is all moot until we receive more information on this story.
I would be interested in hearing one coach that uses this tactic...
Of young guys getting minutes in the garbage games? Robert wrote an article on it after the FSU game, man. Happens all over the place, why play your best guys 30+ minutes against McKendree and all the other junk in the non-con?
I just assumed you were talking about meaningful minutes during non-garbage time. Don't we typically put everyone in during garbage time?
Realistically, games against the junk of the non-con should essentially be 40 minutes garbage time, and allow bigger minutes for those guys. It doesn't always work out that way, obviously, but there should certainly occur more often than not.
DJW averaged 10.6 MPG last year and this year only has 5 games in double digit minutes, with 5 of 6 or less to match. I can see why that would be a little frustrating, that little consistency from the coaches (for those of you emphasizing consistency) really makes it hard to maintain any sort of rhythm as a player, so I can understand any budding frustration with that.
The only minutes we lost from last year are Nunn's minutes. On the flip side, we have added Abrams, Black, Kipper, Lucas, and Thorne into the mix to grab minutes this year... DJW has more people to battle with to get minutes this year. I would love to see him come back, fight through this and earn more tic.
None of those 5 play the 3 position
The only minutes we lost from last year are Nunn's minutes. On the flip side, we have added Abrams, Black, Kipper, Lucas, and Thorne into the mix to grab minutes this year... DJW has more people to battle with to get minutes this year. I would love to see him come back, fight through this and earn more tic.
None of those 5 play the 3 position
That is a silly position.
First, Kipper does. Second, you are comparing last year's time to this years. Hill played 70% of his minutes last year as a 4, so there were many more minutes available at the 3, for DJ or anyone else.
I agree with you that he could have played more minutes this year (personally think Hill could play more 2, TA less 2 more 1). But there is more competition at the 3 and 4 this year than last.
You are of the minority opinion here. You can't blame Groce for EVERYTHING. Stop denying the fact that the kid has had a questionable motor and work ethic since his freshman year of HS. Players play players. If he brought it more in practice and in games he would have more minutes.
And stop with the PG stuff. Almost all of Kipper's points last night were from out hustling the defense. Things DJW does not do.
LOL as if the being in the minority opinion means anything and I would stop stating it because you dont agree with it
What he did in HS is irrelevant because hes not in HS anymore and I havent seen any indication that DJW was not playing because he didnt work had or had no worth ethic as you claim . Telling me what he did as a 16 year old is pointless show me where he hasnt worked hard the last 18 months .
The PG stuff is very relevant and I shouldnt have to explain why but Ill do it anyway .
The ball was moving last night with TJL in and we were forcing the defense more than we had been in any previous game . The slow rotations from a bad defensive team opens up offensive rebounding opportunities .
7 of Kippers points were assisted
4 more were from following his own misses
but more importantly he played 19 minutes something DJ has yet to do even when JCL and TJL were still just coming back from injuries and Black AND Kipper were both still unavailable .He also had 9 shot attempts something DJ has never even been on the floor long enough to do in 2 seasons.
DJ has played well in several non-conference games this season but his minutes were never consistent and he was never given as many Kipper or TJL received even after having a good outing.
I recall DJ playing well in back to back games Mckendree and then Detroit playing 14 mpg in each despite what I just pointed out above . Groce after the Detroit game said he felt DJ had his best overall performance of the season .
He then played DJ 3 minutes in the next game against Winthrop.
But hey if you bring it you get rewarded :thumb:
Rocky the Flying Squirrel
Wait, I thought it was always Bush's faultSome of its Obamas
You're speaking awfully conclusively on DJW for a guy who has less than 500 total minutes, largely in garbage time. And since his freshman year of HS, really? The kid made it to D1 and won state titles at Simeon. You and Ken are both going over the top, here. DJW has shown nice things occasionally in limited minutes, and led his senior year Simeon team.
Clearly you are on team Groce, that's fine, some folks side with the coach and some the players. Personally, I think DJW (and all scholarship players) ought to receive minutes at least throughout the non-con for the sake of their development. DJW has been in the program two years, did not redshirt, and has less MPG his sophomore year than his freshman year despite adding no competition at his position (3) in the offseason, and no negative reports on his work ethic (despite you continuing to claim that) from practice/media. I can see why he may be frustrated. Regardless, this is all moot until we receive more information on this story.
Have to assume there is something he is not doing or he would be playing. He hasn't shown enough in games to remove any questions and who knows what is happening in practice. I always hope it provides motivation to give more rather than quit. We will see what happens. Some guys are fighters and some are quitters. Fighters tend to be more successful.
I think Kipper clearly earned his minutes with his consistent effort when we were getting smoked by IU.
Clearly DJW can't get out of JG'd doghouse, but I think even Groce would spell out if you want to see the floor I need to see AB&C and not XYZ. I obviously am not there, but I don't think JG is unfair at handing out minutes. Don't recall anyone aside from DJ's mom complaining of this.
Not saying JG is doing a stellar job, but don't think DJ's lack of minutes, with or without a stellar point guard are anyone's fault but DJ's. Everyone would look better, JG included, and the team would have been much more successful with a great point guard.
If we are mentioning high school, didn't DJ have experience with the board's favorite point guard then?
I wish all our recruits to be successful, the team, the coach.....
Maybe if DJ can "pull a rabbit out of my hat, nothing up my sleeve! No doubt about it, I got to get another hat."
Go Illini!
One of the reasons we all used to explain Kipper not playing sufficient minutes is that Groce groomed him as a 4, and there's been no mention he's been taught how to play the 3 (which matters significantly less to me than it does to Groce). I may be wrong on this, but has Kipper played a single minute at the 3 yet? I don't recall that, but could of course be wrong -- I thought he played his minutes at the 4 yesterday.
And regardless, it's really just him, MH, and maybe Kipper at 3, so there still should've been 10 a game available for him, at least in non-con while KN wasn't shifting the rotation
This would be a real shame. Kid is a sophomore with a real chance to be a contributor next season. So much talent. Hang in there DJ. Keep your head down and work hard, your chance will come.
Sample size is too small, but I feel like Kipper is the perfect undersized 4. We will see how it goes, but I love the mismatch he creates.
In the same train of thought, DJW seems to a 3 all the way. I think switching them should happen (that versatility should be there for both), but I'm very happy with the idea of both.
I think Kipper clearly earned his minutes with his consistent effort when we were getting smoked by IU.
Groce does not reward excellence or fight.
If he did, Kipper and TJL would be starting.
I hope DJ can work through what he's facing and rejoin our Illini soon.