Winthrop 84, Illinois 80 OT POSTGAME

Illinifan1951 said:

i once heard a very successful high school coach comment that players get credit for wins and coaches get the blame for losses.

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Lot of truth to that, but this team really looks like less than the sum of its parts to this point. I'm open to the idea of it improving because of circumstances of players returning from long layoffs, but in season 5 the spotlight of responsibility really needs to be shining on the people assembling and teaching the roster.

Here is how i look at it being in my eyes
C MAV/Finke
F Leron/Finke
G Hill/DJ/AJ
G Abrahms/JCL
G Tate/TJL

Need 25 minutes out of Mav and Finke with Leron at least taking up 15. Leron could easily flip with one of the other two on certain night. Finke is backup at both and reason why i have him there is because he would be much better off the bench right now.

Need Hill to be 25-30 minutes that way he can stay energized and not warn down. it seems when he is warned down defense lacks rebounding lacks and he feels he has to take over and on an off night like tonight that isnt helping Dj/AJ need to pick that other 15 minutes to 20 minutes up . So far everyone should have energy

Guard play can go either way Abr 25 minutes JCL 15 minutes
Tate would get 20 minutes and TJL would get 20 minutes. I would probably have Tate out with JCL and Abr with TJL..

Will probably get alot of heat for this but please listen first
Tates weakness shooting but gets game out quick runs efficeint offense most of the time and loves to cut and pass. This leads to JCL 3 or Finke 3 with a chance at Mav getting a good shot inside as well. Ball movement off his drive will open up other lanes even with no respect to Tate. Anybody who played basketball knows being told dont worry about that kid but on the court the instincts kick in and you follow him. leads to ball movement and guys open for good shots That seemed to lack tonight

Just do away with the setting of screens because well we cant do it right anyways so throw that in the fire post Leron left side mid range and Mav right side low block. This will open up enough room for ball movement and drives. one guy will come off mav or Leron leaving them open for a shot in their range.

Wouldnt get the ball to Hill until ball was spread around the court getting the defensive players eyes off he guy they have to worry about. Slide Hill to the mid range area that always seems to be open cause not many good mid ranger shooters and have plenty of options out of this..

When they start to go on a run is the time you put AJ Tate DJ Hill and Leron out there for the energy lets get back in control of the game. I believe the best place for TJL is on the line with Abrams. He wont have to do much more than play within control of himself and start getting more into the flow of the offense I know alot hate the mass subs but for this team and the different styles of play this be one of the better ways to get more wins

This team is designed for su-35 offense defense just run 1-2-1-1 pressure. Have the speed the athletes the height and the depth teams should wear out before we do

Winter is coming

Just learn how to lower your expectations, it's easier this way.

breadman said:

I agree. I'm seeing a lot of depth, finally.

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And yet we still give up multiple double digit leads then ultimately lose.

Or "depth" also consists of 6 seniors, two of which are sixth year seniors

I want to say blame the players, but Groce recruited the players. So blame Groce. But idk.

If I wasn't at a friendsgiving with good people having a good time last night I probably would have posted some dumb dumb stuff.

Something has gotta change.


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Orange said:

Winter is coming

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Yes, and we need a Winter Soldier.

There are referees who prescribe to the notion that their job is to keep games close and competitive. The 3 knuckleheads did that last night by calling some of the dumbest fouls on our bigs and getting whistle happy.

When Thorne can't lift his arm up and Black is called for a foul because he gets elbowed to the head you have pretty much shut us down.

I blame the Coaches on this one as well. But I will give them credit for fielding a pretty balanced and versatile team. But I will knock them for not putting them in positions to succeed. I though DJ sat too long and there are players you want at the end of the games and some you don't.

I have no answers for what Illinois should do differently, but man that Keon Johnson had the game of a lifetime against us. To make that many circus shots while playing on one leg (or sometimes seemingly no legs) was just amazing.

I just wish it had been against someone other than my Illini so that I could have enjoyed it more!

Bad loss. No doubt. But for 37 minutes the Illini played solid not great. Despite Keon Johnson playing out of his mind they had a 10 point lead. Obviously the final 3 minutes of regulation were putrid. I am not giving up on this team, I see potential in the first 37 minutes. Are they completely were they need to be, no. But I see more growth is possible with this team so I will remain optimistic.

Oh my God...the sun came up this morning

WHEW!

Here is my lineup:

Tracy backed up by TJL
JCL backed up by Malcolm
Malcolm backed up by DJ
Leron backed up by Finke
Maverick backed up by Finke and Thorne

That is a 9 man rotation. Everyone else just gets scraps.

People are down on Thorne. He hasn't played well to date. He needs to improve conditioning and has some rust to shake off. Way too early to count him out - he was much better last year when he played. I'd give him another month or so to see if he can get back there.

I don't know, I thought that was a really fun game. Too many turnovers for sure, but I enjoyed the whole thing. Would prefer a win, but whatevs.

Hard to get worked up about losses anymore. Still glad I can enjoy watching the games though.

13vezinag said:

What is wrong with you guys. Its 1 LOSS. Winthrop is a NCAA tournament team. I think Groce is a great coach. If whitman can give him a vote of confidence so can I. It just means he believes in him and i do to. Im looking forward to the rest of the season. Now the team can set back and get ready for are first BIG test of the season playing west virginia.

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If you think Groce is a great coach you need to put down the kool-aid

There is no way that Tate gets 14 more minutes than Coleman-Lands and we expect to win games like that. Someone mentioned that Tate was the only guy that could guard Johnson, well obviously they didn't watch the game. Nobody was guarding him, so you might as well put your top five offensive weapons on the floor. Very bad loss and out coached again!!

Tip of the cap game. I enjoyed watching it even with the loss. Sometimes that happens in sports. That's the type of performance that sends high seeds home in tournament games. I just for the life of me can not figure out how they put 86 on FSU in regulation without Keon Johnson playing. I mean seriously, against us would they have broken 60 with out him?

Illini outplayed them for 95% of the game unfortunately the other 5% is what cost them. Had a 10 point lead with just over 3 minutes to go. Shooting only 56% from the charity stripe will cost you most of the time. Should Illini go smaller to be quicker? Maybe Finke, Black, Hill, Abrams and throw Lucas in the fire and see what you have? Bring JCL and D.J. in the rotation for quickness and Mav or Thorne for size.

Chipatsj23h said:

Im sick of defending Tate, done with it. I think hes a good kid, has passion but he should not be in the ball game in the final 2 minutes of any game or an OT game. He kills the ball when hes handling. Hill or Tracy should have the ball in their hand in a close game! End of story! Drives me crazy that he handled the ball late in this game, not even freaking out about the turnover, its more that he completey kills the offense.

With Tracy looking as good as he does, theres no reason for Tate to be in with Abrams. If he needs a breather then I get it. But no reason for both of them to be out there. This is a frustrating loss

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Agree.

Illinithad said:

So we are going to miss the tournament? :tsk:
I still think we have a chance.

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I do too. Many on the board are probably justified for concerns about Groce. I'm going to hold off on hitting the panic switch, at least for now. We played like garbage a lot last night, but there were also some really good stretches. We just need to be more consistent. On to WV.

HOOPDOG said:

There is no way that Tate gets 14 more minutes than Coleman-Lands and we expect to win games like that. Someone mentioned that Tate was the only guy that could guard Johnson, well obviously they didn't watch the game. Nobody was guarding him, so you might as well put your top five offensive weapons on the floor. Very bad loss and out coached again!!

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No one on the floor for Illini could stop Johnson. Why the staff didn't give Lucas a try is beyond me. Isn't he supposed to be the quickest guy on the team? This team is not quick, athletic in lateral movement. We will get blown by all year long with a quick guard. And then the fouling machines crank up (Black, Thorne, Mav). Tate's early flashes of success vs. D2-3 teams gave Groce rose colored glasses. He is not the answer.

ColorMeBad said:

Tip of the cap game. I enjoyed watching it even with the loss. Sometimes that happens in sports. That's the type of performance that sends high seeds home in tournament games. I just for the life of me can not figure out how they put 86 on FSU in regulation without Keon Johnson playing. I mean seriously, against us would they have broken 60 with out him?

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I thought the exact same thing as I was watching. That dude was awesome! The other thing that I kept thinking was how I wanted one guy to just lock down on him and take him out of the equation. I miss having a lock down guy like Dee, slapping the floor, cutting off passing lanes, etc.

whovous said:

I have no answers for what Illinois should do differently, but man that Keon Johnson had the game of a lifetime against us. To make that many circus shots while playing on one leg (or sometimes seemingly no legs) was just amazing.

I just wish it had been against someone other than my Illini so that I could have enjoyed it more!

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He had four +30 games last year. He played to his potential. There was film on him that was not scrutinized by this staff. At least Dennis Green had it right, "They are who we thought they were". It looked like we had no clue on how to guard him.

haasi said:

People are down on Thorne. He hasn't played well to date. He needs to improve conditioning and has some rust to shake off. Way too early to count him out - he was much better last year when he played. I'd give him another month or so to see if he can get back there.

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Hasn't he had all summer to get conditioned?

HOOPDOG said:

There is no way that Tate gets 14 more minutes than Coleman-Lands and we expect to win games like that. Someone mentioned that Tate was the only guy that could guard Johnson, well obviously they didn't watch the game. Nobody was guarding him, so you might as well put your top five offensive weapons on the floor. Very bad loss and out coached again!!

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Very untrue! Tate was on him tight for most of the game and we tried quite a wide variety of defensive alignments to stop him... kid just had an unbelievable game.

Now, I think we should have tried a few more full court presses, half court traps, and double teams to slow him down (especially in the last 2 minutes), but to say we didn't guard the kid is some kind of hyperbole.

Also, from being court-side for this one, let me just say that almost every shot Keon made was more difficult than it looked on TV. Some of the angles and body control he had to utilize was really impressive.

I actually thought we did real well to only send him to the line 4 times given his 85% career FT effectiveness.