Harbaugh sideways with NCAA

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#276      
Interesting. The origins of the data that triggered the investigation or who leaked it seems irrelevant. This isn’t a legal case with rules of evidence. It’s a question of rules violations. The article suggests Michigan‘s cheating was “unfairly disclosed”. If somebody hacked or stole data, the hacker might be in a bit of trouble, but it shouldn’t get Michigan off the hook. Don’t like it? Just follow the rules.
 
#277      
I don't find him an apologist via his postings on the subject, just someone circumspect about what may have happened. Circumstantial evidence, even a mountain of it, won't precipitate punishment against Michigan's program. That video of Harbaugh "talking" to Stalions at last year's MSU game, for example: he's talking toward Stalions. An assistant standing between them (wearing a headset) seems to me to be the more likely target of his verbiage. Occam's razor. Goodness, I hate to associate myself with anything originating in Missouri; however, Show Me.

It won't surprise me if Harbaugh knew of Stalions' entrepreneurial activity but it also won't if he intelligently insulated himself from the guy. Any dude (he's not even an alum of the school) who lives in his own car in San Diego, instead of an apartment, so he can save money to travel to every UM game, and allegedly writes a 5-600-page manifesto about the mission and future of the program, is a true zealot and eager cannon fodder, and would no doubt take a bullet for Harbaugh and the program. However, I've dealt with the media often enough in my career (and observed them as a consumer for long enough) to be highly skeptical of what I read at the outset of these sorts of salacious stories, and for a long while after. Sports Web sites are clickbait magnets. I'm awaiting the smoking gun. Meanwhile, apparently UM is proceeding with a Harbaugh contract extension, contrary to what the WSJ printed earlier in the week. That holds more weight with me than anything I've seen so far if in fact it is true.

The wheels of justice grind slowly. I'll wager that they'll grind too slowly to keep UM from the playoff games this season because way too much $$ is at stake for the conference and networks. Sadly, it's the same driver that led the ref to look the other way on that hold off the line on Michigan's final drive against us last November, which put them in easy FG range for the nation's best PK. It's unjust and corrupt but seems to be the reality of the sitch. The BT and big time college sports are, after all, Chinatown, Jake.

If anyone in the executive coaching chain at Michigan knew of what Stalions was doing I hope it comes to light and the program gets hammered hard. I remain skeptical that it will happen, let alone that it will happen this month or next. Hope I'm wrong.

I'm pinning my hopes on OSU (and/or Penn State) beating Michigan and keeping them out of the playoff. Having seen all three of those teams play several times this season, however, I'm not holding my breath.
I haven't seen mentioned here that if in fact Stalions was gathering info (whether or not it was at the behest of the staff): ScUM used that information, meaning that someone on the staff was aware that it was gained illicitly, and therefore according to the NCAA's rule implemented last year Harbaugh is responsible for any and all actions associated with the gathering and use of the information. Harbaugh, or Harbaugh's staff knew that they were using other teams' signs, and that they had not obtained those signs in a legal fashion. End of story. Bailiff, whack his peepee!
 
#278      
I haven't seen mentioned here that if in fact Stalions was gathering info (whether or not it was at the behest of the staff): ScUM used that information, meaning that someone on the staff was aware that it was gained illicitly, and therefore according to the NCAA's rule implemented last year Harbaugh is responsible for any and all actions associated with the gathering and use of the information. Harbaugh, or Harbaugh's staff knew that they were using other teams' signs, and that they had not obtained those signs in a legal fashion. End of story. Bailiff, whack his peepee!
Harbaugh will NEVER be disciplined by BIG 10 . Money will find an appropriate scapegoat to bear the brunt. SCUM floats on top of the cesspool.
 
#279      

altgeld88

Arlington, Virginia
I haven't seen mentioned here that if in fact Stalions was gathering info (whether or not it was at the behest of the staff): ScUM used that information, meaning that someone on the staff was aware that it was gained illicitly, and therefore according to the NCAA's rule implemented last year Harbaugh is responsible for any and all actions associated with the gathering and use of the information. Harbaugh, or Harbaugh's staff knew that they were using other teams' signs, and that they had not obtained those signs in a legal fashion. End of story. Bailiff, whack his peepee!
If UM is truly going ahead with the Harbaugh extension the administration and trustees likely feel confident that there's enough ambiguity to protect him.

Also (per @Dkayak above) Michigan fans are foaming at the mouth about the allegation that someone (i.e. Ryan Day) hired a PI to look into the possibility that UM was spying. Right. So that soft mama's boy Ryan Day can't beat us on the field (er... for the past two seasons only) and hires a PI to catch us cheating, which he may well have done. The nerve!!

Just lol. Hypocrites.
 
#280      
If UM is truly going ahead with the Harbaugh extension the administration and trustees likely feel confident that there's enough ambiguity to protect him.

Also (per @Dkayak above) Michigan fans are foaming at the mouth about the allegation that someone (i.e. Ryan Day) hired a PI to look into the possibility that UM was spying. Right. So that soft mama's boy Ryan Day can't beat us on the field (er... for the past two seasons only) and hires a PI to catch us cheating, which he may well have done. The nerve!!

Just lol. Hypocrites.
Translation: You‘re cheating if you use a PI to uncover our cheating. It’s unethical.

Doesn’t that make your head hurt? Gutsy but nonsensical complaint.
 
#281      

altgeld88

Arlington, Virginia
Translation: You‘re cheating if you use a PI to uncover our cheating. It’s unethical.

Doesn’t that make your head hurt? Gutsy but nonsensical complaint.

They double down like few others.

Desmond Howard: "When you're the big dog people are gonna come after you."

Well, Desmond, they're only coming after you because you apparently stole the other dogs' food (instead of pushing them aside from the bowl and earning it the hard way), which is how you became the big dog. Take away those purloined calories and you shrink.
 
#282      
Message boards and reader comments to articles are full of outraged, OUTRAGED Michigan fans saying scUM should sue if B1G or NCAA apply sanctions. Sue them for $ millions in damages to the University’s reputation! They’re gonna pay if they dare to impugn Michigan!

Any lawsuits arising from this will be civil suits, decided by the preponderance of evidence. Beyond a reasonable doubt is a very high bar, applicable to criminal law and entirely irrelevant here. Is it at least 51% likely the accusations are true? If so, the only issue is whether any penalties are unreasonably severe? This would seem to depend on how much harm is perceived to have been done to scUM’s opponents.
This is the reason why it is a slow process

We all can see what scUM did but can u defend it in court. Yes their reputation would be ruined if they are ineligible for the playoffs. That would be a first. That is why I believe any punishment will come out in 2 years when it doesn’t matter. You can’t remove memories even if you vacate wins. Ban them this year the conference/NCAA has to prove it. Because there will be restraining orders

I feel bad for the 5th place team this year and last if scUM ends up in the top 4
 
#283      
This is the reason why it is a slow process

We all can see what scUM did but can u defend it in court. Yes their reputation would be ruined if they are ineligible for the playoffs. That would be a first. That is why I believe any punishment will come out in 2 years when it doesn’t matter. You can’t remove memories even if you vacate wins. Ban them this year the conference/NCAA has to prove it. Because there will be restraining orders

I feel bad for the 5th place team this year and last if scUM ends up in the top 4
But the threshold to defend it in court isn’t as terribly high and airtight as people assume, or is it? Preponderance of evidence is enough? What would be the basis for a restraining order? We didn’t do any illegal scouting (despite the evidence of butts in seats recording video). Stalings’ input didn’t really affect how we played the games (we ignored him)? It was unethical to expose us? Decision violates NCAA bylaws, processes, etc seems like the biggest obstacle to quick resolution.

If it takes a very long time, both Michigan and the sport will be dragged through the mud regardless of the final decision. Look at what doping did to pro cycling. Better to rip off the bandage and be done as quickly as possible, making an example of scUM in the process for deterrent effect. And dragging it out could even hamper scUM’s recruiting with a cloud of doubt re: the outcome.
 
#287      
So, basically a bunch of guys with a direct, professional interest in tearing Michigan down at the first opportunity support taking advantage of an opportunity to tear Michigan down.

And in other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
I am so old I still remember the slush fund mess from 1966. The AD's of all the schools voted unanimously in favor of the penalties. Everyone should know what they were.

"Fritz" Crisler took it a step further. He was vocal in his belief that Illinois should be expelled from the B1G regardless of other sanctions. That level of vitriol disgusted me then - and it does now

So yes --- Lord Voldemort --- I am interested in tearing down SCUM.
 
#289      

altgeld88

Arlington, Virginia
WSJ article posted this morning:

Word is that the BT will suspend Harbaugh indefinitely on Monday and UM will immediately file suit to stay the suspension. See MGoBlog for that nugget if you can stomach it.

 
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#290      
WSJ article posted this morning:

Word is that the BT will suspend Harbaugh indefinitely on Monday and UM will immediately file suit to stay the suspension. See MGoBlog for that nugget if you can stomach it.

In a world outside of the big money sports, the B1G would then throw ScUM out of the conference upon receipt of the suit. But then, that's not the world we live in, is it? 😒
 
#291      

altgeld88

Arlington, Virginia
In a world outside of the big money sports, the B1G would then throw ScUM out of the conference upon receipt of the suit. But then, that's not the world we live in, is it? 😒
What's fascinating is that some of the MGOBlog regulars suggest that if the BT punishes the football program UM should threaten to decamp to the SEC. 'Cause that'll certainly teach the mouth breathers, which of course the rest of the BT comprises, a lesson.

Taking your ball and leaving the playground. It's hilarious and delusional. And somewhat psychopathic.
 
#293      
What's fascinating is that some of the MGOBlog regulars suggest that if the BT punishes the football program UM should threaten to decamp to the SEC. 'Cause that'll certainly teach the mouth breathers, which of course the rest of the BT comprises, a lesson.

Taking your ball and leaving the playground. It's hilarious and delusional. And somewhat psychopathic.
Yeah, if your read the history of the Big Ten and the expulsion of ScUM back in 1901 (ish), ScUM was upset with the direction that college football was headed and left the playground with theI hall, according to various articles published by ScUM followers. According to the BIG Ten, they were shown the door.
 
#294      

chiefini

Rockford, Illinois
Yeah, if your read the history of the Big Ten and the expulsion of ScUM back in 1901 (ish), ScUM was upset with the direction that college football was headed and left the playground with theI hall, according to various articles published by ScUM followers. According to the BIG Ten, they were shown the door.
I’m not familiar with Big Ten history, @Illini in Italy, so I didn’t know scUM got kicked out. Who the heck let ‘em back in? And why, why, why?
 
#295      
here we go

Controversial New Video Emerges Of Jim Harbaugh Listening To Connor Stalions On Sideline During Game (VIDEO)​



we all know this stuff is coming out, despite the ignorance of Lord Voldemort's denials

there is NO EFFING WAY Jimbo didnt know this crap was happening
The guy's job was to steal signs which is legal. That's why Jim was talking to him. He'll just say he didn't know how Stallions got the signs.
 
#296      

altgeld88

Arlington, Virginia
I’m not familiar with Big Ten history, @Illini in Italy, so I didn’t know scUM got kicked out. Who the heck let ‘em back in? And why, why, why?
NY Times on why they were kicked out (1907): Conference Ousts Michigan. Basically, Fielding Yost travelled the country recruiting ringers who were not student-athletes. It was part of an effort to remove "professionalism" from the college game.

A Wikipedia page exists and, I'm confident, lots of MGoBlog and other Michigan apologists on why it was vindictive and unjust.

Wikipedia: History of Michigan Wolverines football in the Yost era (see Withdrawal from the conference and Return to the conference.)

Then, as now, I believe the line is that they're just so much better than everyone else and their opponents are simply jealous.
 
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#297      
I am so old I still remember the slush fund mess from 1966. The AD's of all the schools voted unanimously in favor of the penalties. Everyone should know what they were.

"Fritz" Crisler took it a step further. He was vocal in his belief that Illinois should be expelled from the B1G regardless of other sanctions. That level of vitriol disgusted me then - and it does now

So yes --- Lord Voldemort --- I am interested in tearing down SCUM.
Man has a vendetta dating back more than fifty years, and he's willing to own it. I can respect that.
 
#298      
Interesting. The origins of the data that triggered the investigation or who leaked it seems irrelevant. This isn’t a legal case with rules of evidence. It’s a question of rules violations. The article suggests Michigan‘s cheating was “unfairly disclosed”. If somebody hacked or stole data, the hacker might be in a bit of trouble, but it shouldn’t get Michigan off the hook. Don’t like it? Just follow the rules.
Fair enough. But understand that goes both ways. Hacking into someone else's computer is a crime, and the fact that you uncovered NCAA rules violations in the process doesn't make the crime go away.

Worst case scenario Michigan football is looking at missing out on the playoffs. Depending on how they got in and what they did when they got there someone could very well be looking at prison. And if that someone can be tied to another Big Ten school . . . are you sure you really want to open this can of worms, folks?
 
#299      

altgeld88

Arlington, Virginia
Man has a vendetta dating back more than fifty years, and he's willing to own it. I can respect that.
There's some symmetry there:

"Coach Harbaugh says: 'A faithful man forgives; a smart man forgets; the Harbaughs remember." This does not put the Harbaughs in the "smart man" category, admittedly.


 
#300      
ScUM apparently defines "due process" as whatever they want it means . . . in this case likely to be "delay . . . delay . . . delay"
It's been a common sentiment among mobs for millennia: "Why should we wait for some namby-pamby due process when we can have vengeance now?"

Let me explain something to you: You're stuck waiting. The league has a charter and bylaws, and these are all legally binding. These rules set out a process for how the league deals with violations. The process is not designed for instant gratification. There is no "but everybody knows what happened already" exception.

If the league takes any shortcuts, Michigan will sue for an injunction, and they will almost certainly get one.

There will be no instant thuderclap of wrath and justice. Frankly, by bugging out and trying to take shortcuts instead of working through the process, the league probably added months -- maybe years -- of delays to this whole thing. A clever lawyer -- you are aware that Michigan has a law school of it own -- has a gold mine of material to litigate from the BS that's gone on already.

If it's any comfort, this isn't the fault of anybody on this board. You guys didn't add all that much. The problem is the people in positions of responsibility -- the league office, ADs and coaches -- weren't all that much smarter than you guys.
 
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