Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

[grantlab]

He can't hit threes consistently at a high level yet from the college range. I think his best year is 28 percent and the biggest reason he should come back. Which i hope he does. He vastly improved as the year went on. I think he can and will improve with not so much riding on him to make others better.

Agreed, and I think a major way to improve your 3 point shooting is actually taking FEWER threes but getting overall better looks facilitated by a better overall offense. Look at what Ayo did in 2021: went from a 29.0% (27-93) three point shooter to 38.6% (32-83). He took 10 fewer shots and only made 5 more but felt like a vastly improved three point shooter and helped his NBA stock.

You could argue 2023 was the exact opposite for Coleman: shot 28.0% (37-132) vs. 29.2% (19-65) in 2022. Surround Coleman with experienced players who can and will run an offense, he doesn’t have to take step back threes at the logo and probably attempts much closer to 65 than 132 next season.

 

[Illini1985]

Had a question for insiders.

Obviously the clear impression from you guys is that Shannon very likely will be back and Hawkins while not as sure, still seems like he's coming back.

Does this come from sources/coaches/BU himself only? Or do you hear this from people around Shannon and Hawkins' circle as well?

I ask because could we be looking at a situation for where whatever reason players tell coaches one thing but then does something else? Essentially stringing along the staff while making plans elsewhere (aka NBA)?

Not trying to question your information, just curious to see if this is a possibility.

 

[Second place is 1st loser]

The starting five I think most of us can agree on:

1. Good, skilled, experienced PG
2. Skilled dawg
3. Skilled dawg
4. Skilled dawg
5. Skilled dawg

Brad‘s job is to throw that bone out on the court every day.

Brad's job is to mesh an overhauled roster together in about two months. Each dawg needs to find their role and some(most) won't be eating as much as others and they have to be ok with that. That wasn't handled by last year's dawgs very well. I do think that he's been a lot of selective this year in trying to define roles early. If the guys come back who some think are going to come back and if the PG is who some think will be the PG....that, by default, leaves very little meat left as all three are ball dominant guys looking to better their draft position. Not easy to overcome that mindset.

 

[1LL1NO1S]

Had a question for insiders.

Obviously the clear impression from you guys is that Shannon very likely will be back and Hawkins while not as sure, still seems like he's coming back.

Does this come from sources/coaches/BU himself only? Or do you hear this from people around Shannon and Hawkins' circle as well?

I ask because could we be looking at a situation for where whatever reason players tell coaches one thing but then does something else? Essentially stringing along the staff while making plans elsewhere (aka NBA)?

Not trying to question your information, just curious to see if this is a possibility.

They talked about this exact thing on Sleepers media...

 

[Johnny Lawrence]

Depends on how many baguettes and cheeses he is eating back in France.

I was reading the Economist and just in terms of education and quality of life, don’t bet against Old Lady France.

 

[nichi]

The DGL rumblings are disappointing. I'm not sure why we have a scholarship locked up for a guy who now we have "insiders" throwing shade at. We knew what we were getting into. If we don't like it now, why did we even go here?

Exactly. Our staff offered and signed this kid for some reason.

 

[aaeismacgychel]

Every offseason we think we’re deeper than we are. Someone will get hurt, or someone won’t pan out, etc., etc., etc. Every year we wonder if there’s gonna be enough minutes to go around, and every year we’re seemingly struggling to find 8 guys in February who can consistently score the basketball and aren’t a complete liability on the defensive end of the floor. I think it will be fine.

I agree with you that in normal situations with normal roster construction, teams wind up playing 7-8 deep by the time it gets to conference play. However, how I'm seeing it, we don't quite have a normal construction and that's where my pause is coming from.

Usually when you have 4 (or 5) senior starters, the underclassmen on the team were recruited knowing playing time was unlikely but the team will be handed over to them the next year. In this case, 3 (or 4) seniors will be brought in as 1 time rentals and all are slated starters or primary backup roles. Now that can possibly work if you play a very deep bench and then reduce minutes based on performance later. However, going in with the idea you're playing 10 and then because of injury/performance go to 8 in my opinion is different than going in with the mindset we’re playing 8 with the 4 or 5 1yr rentals and our 2 senior returnees getting those positions and everyone else fighting for that final 1 or 2 sub spots.

While I do agree with you that we'll be fine for next year, I am nervous because I think it has a possibility of making this type of roster construction untenable. For example, if you have 5 (or 6) graduating next year, both freshmen leaving, and then a pissed off sophomore or junior who can't trust you not recruiting over, that'll be 8 or 9 openings on the roster the following year. Yes, that's a lot of ifs, but our floor is 5 or 6 openings minimum, and likely 7-8 people leaving on average? Just seems worrisome due to being unsustainable to me. Almost turns into a vicious circle of live and die by the portal at some point.

So to summarize, my concerns aren't a next year issue, more if a two years from now issue. I'd rather not lose an Amani and a Sencire or Ty next year if we can avoid it.

 

[CoalCity]

Oh he knows the areas he needs to work on …

I do think part of those logo 3s were legitimately out of frustration … Were we going to get a better shot than that with Epps or Skyy running point ? Probably not …

Plus he knew that if he passed it to either one of them the chances of it coming back were slim. Add Matt to that group too.

 

[Illini1985]

They talked about this exact thing on Sleepers media...

That's actually what I was getting at. Just trying to reconcile how insiders here seemed pretty confident in Shannon and Hawkins returning while Sleeper guys being pretty confident they're gone.

Both our insiders and sleepers guys have been pretty accurate with scoops. I will say sleepers guys tend to overreact and are wayyy too low on RayJ.

 

[GoodePodzMelendez]

But he could for poor spacing, ill timed passes, holding the ball to long in the shot clock, not cutting, not pushing the pace, not going to the correct lane on breaks... I mean there was a lot and then to try a win games, the winners tried to win like the pick up game they basically ended up playing.

A solid PG who can create spacing will help our shooters. Not having that last year hurt.

 

[oldman]

This is a great discussion. I can’t wait until a year from now when we enjoy the benefits of hindsight instead of relying on our analysis of what is going to happen in the future.

I’m glad we have BU to predict the future, even if he is sometimes wrong. He’s been right often enough to be entitled to a little slack.

 

[WyattEarp]

View attachment 25317
I was reading the Economist and just in terms of education and quality of life, don’t bet against Old Lady France.

Now that’s a timely post.

 

[CoalCity]

They talked about this exact thing on Sleepers media...

I like these guys but they've had some terribly uninformed takes lately, so I wouldnt put much credibility on what these guys have to say.

 

[BalloonsTheElephant]

He can't hit threes consistently at a high level yet from the college range. I think his best year is 28 percent and the biggest reason he should come back. Which i hope he does. He vastly improved as the year went on. I think he can and will improve with not so much riding on him to make others better.

I think a lot of his misses were bad shot selection due to the fact we had zero ball movement and he'd end up with the ball with 5 sec on the clock and have to do something. I think he could be a successful low-volume 3P guy who takes it in rhythm.

 

[theNewGuy]

So hypothetically say we get RayJ. Hypothetically Coleman and TJ come back as well, filling up our scholarships. Hypothetically Hunter Dickinson wants to come here because National Championship aspirations, $$$, and TJ. What is stopping him from making an extra 50k per year and being a 'walk-on'? If he's already projected to make millions, couldn't the NIL collective cough up more to cover tuition? Besides tuition, what else does a scholarship guarantee student athletes?

Genuinely want to know if this scenario is legit?

 

[Emerson Bigguns]

Had a question for insiders.

Obviously the clear impression from you guys is that Shannon very likely will be back and Hawkins while not as sure, still seems like he's coming back.

Does this come from sources/coaches/BU himself only? Or do you hear this from people around Shannon and Hawkins' circle as well?

I ask because could we be looking at a situation for where whatever reason players tell coaches one thing but then does something else? Essentially stringing along the staff while making plans elsewhere (aka NBA)?

Not trying to question your information, just curious to see if this is a possibility.

I doubt anything disingenuous is happening. I'm sure they would both love to have NBA scouts fall in love with their game/potential and assure them that they have a place in the Association, not the G-league. While it's unlikely to happen, it's not out of the question.
Neither the player nor coaches have a crystal ball that will tell them exactly how the process will play out. If either guy was a lock, there would be no drama. Since both guys are fringy prospects, it is hard for either party to make a hard commitment. It really depends.
From the players perspective, you want the NBA to fall for you and assure you a 7-figure contract. It's the dream come true.
From a coach's standpoint, you are looking at likely your two best players. You don't want to just move on because you might lose them. You might also keep them, and you aren't likely to replace them with better players. (Anyone better would stay in the draft)
It's a tough spot. I don't think anyone is getting strung along.

They literally don't know, until they know, ya know?

 

[Emerson Bigguns]

Genuinely want to know if this scenario is legit?

If we get Ray J, Hawkins, and Shannon, we are full. There is no room for Hunter, unless someone else leaves.

 

[ElGran]

Had a question for insiders.

Obviously the clear impression from you guys is that Shannon very likely will be back and Hawkins while not as sure, still seems like he's coming back.

Does this come from sources/coaches/BU himself only? Or do you hear this from people around Shannon and Hawkins' circle as well?

I ask because could we be looking at a situation for where whatever reason players tell coaches one thing but then does something else? Essentially stringing along the staff while making plans elsewhere (aka NBA)?

Not trying to question your information, just curious to see if this is a possibility.

I think that depends on how you define "very likely." Seems like the %s they've thrown out are more in the "likely" range than very likely.

I wouldn't be surprised if neither is back or both are back. But I'm not an insider.

 

[theNewGuy]

If we get Ray J, Hawkins, and Shannon, we are full. There is no room for Hunter, unless someone else leaves.

Not to be rude, but did you read the post?

 

[robjilla]

I'm from the South Side too. Southeast Side specifically. If I didn't go to Ignatius, I wouldn't follow them either.

And Barron was on campus for an unofficial at Illinois but they never offered. He signed with George Mason, but their coach left so Providence swooped in. He's a big-bodied 6'6 wing.

I dont envy you living on the southeast side and passing up all those schools to get to Roosevelt, but im sure the good education was worth it. 6'6 big bodied wing sounds like Rodgers. Barron is a better shooter im sure. Never seen him play. Thanks for the good info.

 

[theNewGuy]

If we get Ray J, Hawkins, and Shannon, we are full. There is no room for Hunter, unless someone else leaves.

The whole premise of the question is if we are full, what is stopping a high profile player from coming in as a walk on and just getting NIL to cover tuition costs?

 

[BalloonsTheElephant]

It'd kill you? We haven't seen the guy play one second of college ball.

We've seen 4 years of QG and he's an above average PF whose metrics say he is an above average offensive player and below average defensive player. I think he's a guy that raises the floor, but I thought there was a lot of hype about Hansberry maybe even starting. So to take away his ability to learn to get a guy that may provide only a nominal impact difference, seems questionable. In a vacuum, I like the signing, but if it might cost us Hansberry, I don't like it.

Before I get trampled here, I 100% support Brad and think he has the ability to play this portal three card monte shell game. However, if it stops working and you've spent 2+ years recruiting over your highly-ranked freshman to get a rental and they leave and new recruits see you may just put them at the end of the bench and top end portal guys see you can't bring a bunch of new guys together and develop them and get them to play as a team, the bottom will fall out and you will have nothing.

I'm not saying this is the reality, but could be. In a perfect world, you develop your young guys and pick up transfers for depth and fill in roles. Brad is not Groce, he has contingency plans and is a great evaluator of talent. We will never be stuck in mediocrity long, if at all. Sadly with the portal and NIL, it's impossible to look at a roster and extrapolate that out over 4 years, so you have to plan for this year only, because Adam Miller or Curbelo or Epps or Clark may happen again. There are no guarantees and everything is a one-year contract. Brad is doing his job, I would go about it a different way.

The most valuable commodity is a transfer with multiple years of "control" since he can't transfer again without losing a year. It's now better to go play for a mid major, show out and then find your way to a P5 program instead of sitting a year. Now that I have successfully become a ChiefGritty disciple, let the hate rain down.

 

[willillini]

Genuinely want to know if this scenario is legit?

no, but in theory could any player who gets $$$$$ NIL money just pay his tuition and walk on?
not that player necessarily. reasonable question when kids are making 7 figures.

 

[Emerson Bigguns]

Not to be rude, but did you read the post?

part of it...

 

[willillini]

maybe its the wrong time of the day, but the insiders seem to noticeably quiet right now......