Penn State 71, Illinois 67 POSTGAME

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#77      
CARPET
Branson53 said:
I completely agree. This team is so Jekyll and Hyde it doesn't make sense to me either. They show flashes where they appear to be firing at all cylinders and then other times don't look like they have a clue what they are doing. The only answer I can think of is coaching.
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Every thing you said was spot on- Some where in the chain of command there is a disconnect. What remains is a head scratcher on how to fix it.
 
#79      
KRSAS
Called it, We beat Iowa then lose to Penn St. This team gets everyone in hope to believe that things are going to get better than lay an egg. Why are we shocked with this outcome? This is typically how things have been the last few years and it certainly will not get any better under this staff. This NEEDS to change! I don't know why we have accepted this mediocrity??? We need to beat these teams! I don't want to hear any malarkey that this is a acceptable loss, this is the Big Ten and this is unacceptable for ILLINOIS basketball. This is unacceptable that freakin' NORTHWESTERN is the third best team in the league while we are the third worst team in the league. I'm sorry but I don't know why people are content with this outcome. You expect next year to be any better? Moral victories against a PENN STATE?? Are you kidding me!
 
#80      
Dan
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#81      
illinimamma
I think the saddest thing for me was, during the furious comeback, Tracy turns down a clear, easy shot and throws the ball in the seats & Malcolm dribbles right into trouble & turns the ball over. I love Malcolm, but I've seen him do this repeatedly in crunch time. These play from our senior leaders....just makes me sad.
 
#82      
CoalCity
illinimamma said:
I think the saddest thing for me was, during the furious comeback, Tracy turns down a clear, easy shot and throws the ball in the seats & Malcolm dribbles right into trouble & turns the ball over. I love Malcolm, but I've seen him do this repeatedly in crunch time. These play from our senior leaders....just makes me sad.
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Yes that was a horrible sequence. I came out of the recliner on that pass by Tracy. That was just awful.
 
#83      
EJ33
Starter points per minute: 50 pts in 126 player minutes = .4 pts per player minute

Bench points per minute: 17 pts in 74 player minutes = .23 pts per player minute

IF YOU WANT TO WIN PLAY YOUR BEST PLAYERS MORE MINUTES.

That's all.
 
#84      
westcoastillini
Glad to see some fight on the road against PSU. This game was
more or less lost in the first half, however. Coming back from 20 down is Nearly impossible. Unfortunately this was probably one of the few away games that we had the chance of stealing.

That said, as this season progresses I am growing a little more weary as our NCAA hopes start to fade. I really like John Groce but he can't seem to instill consistent toughness into these teams. The jumpshot comes and goes but the will to compete is absolutely on the coaching staff.
 
#85      
WesterveltVictoryCigar
EJ33 said:
Starter points per minute: 50 pts in 126 player minutes = .4 pts per player minute

Bench points per minute: 17 pts in 74 player minutes = .23 pts per player minute

IF YOU WANT TO WIN PLAY YOUR BEST PLAYERS MORE MINUTES.

That's all.
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2 of your better players today were Finke and Nichols. Lucas and Black weren't all that effective, either.
 
#86      
KSmooth
That second half was fun even if we didn't quite pull out the win, but we've got to take a close look at what happened in the first half.

And that first half was awful The offense looks completely lost out there. I've played on pick-up teams at the local gym that had better offensive organization than I saw out of the Illini in the first 20 minutes.
 
#89      
EJ33
WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
2 of your better players today were Finke and Nichols. Lucas and Black weren't all that effective, either.
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Finke and Nichols were comparable to Morgan and Black. Thorne, Abrams, and Tate were wasted minutes. 4 points in 41 minutes.

Groce needs to shorten the bench and stop with the early substitutions - let the team get in rhythm, particularly on the road.

I've never seen a guy so stubbornly stick to losing strategies.
 
#90      
WesterveltVictoryCigar
EJ33 said:
Finke and Nichols were comparable to Morgan and Black. Thorne, Abrams, and Tate were wasted minutes. 4 points in 41 minutes.

Groce needs to shorten the bench and stop with the early substitutions - let the team get in rhythm, particularly on the road.

I've never seen a guy so stubbornly stick to losing strategies.
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Thorne and Abrams were awful, but they didn't start. I agree on shortening the rotation. I feel bad for both the 6th year guys, especially Tracy but they need to sit. Start Mav at center and use Finke/Black to back him up and give Nichols more time.
 
#91      
Kathy
EJ33 said:
Starter points per minute: 50 pts in 126 player minutes = .4 pts per player minute

Bench points per minute: 17 pts in 74 player minutes = .23 pts per player minute

IF YOU WANT TO WIN PLAY YOUR BEST PLAYERS MORE MINUTES.

That's all.
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THIS!
 
#92      
EJ33
WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
Thorne and Abrams were awful, but they didn't start. I agree on shortening the rotation. I feel bad for both the 6th year guys, especially Tracy but they need to sit. Start Mav at center and use Finke/Black to back him up and give Nichols more time.
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Exactly.
 
#93      
illinimike
i have been a big Groce fan, and have continually given him the benefit of the doubt, but I can't anymore. My hope is that we get someone in who has a mind for systems, who can get the most out of his athletes and help them play within the flow of said system. The most frustrating part of the Groce era has been the lack of defined systems and basketball iq of the teams.
 
#94      
coltjames03
Really wish had a pg who could score and would look for his shot. Would open up so much
 
#95      
ILLHangOut
EJ33 said:
Finke and Nichols were comparable to Morgan and Black. Thorne, Abrams, and Tate were wasted minutes. 4 points in 41 minutes.

Groce needs to shorten the bench and stop with the early substitutions - let the team get in rhythm, particularly on the road.

I've never seen a guy so stubbornly stick to losing strategies.
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Totally agree. The frustrating part is this board has identified this for a few games now. Tracy, Tate, and Thorne should not play more than 10 minutes barring abnormal circumstances (Hot hand, foul trouble, etc).

The staff clearly values respecting the seniors' minutes above all else.
 
#96      
whovous
Three unpopular thoughts:
1) Not a flagrant. The player was unimpeded to the basket even after Tate bumped his arm. I did not see a grab, I saw Tate stumble and hit his arm;
2) The 20 point deficit in the first half is 95% on the player and five percent on the coach; and,
3) The comeback in the second was 95% coaching. Groce has had some badly coached games, but this absolutely was not one of them.
 
#97      
MrOizo
EJ33 said:
Starter points per minute: 50 pts in 126 player minutes = .4 pts per player minute

Bench points per minute: 17 pts in 74 player minutes = .23 pts per player minute

IF YOU WANT TO WIN PLAY YOUR BEST PLAYERS MORE MINUTES.

That's all.
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Bingo.
 
#98      
MrOizo
whovous said:
Three unpopular thoughts:
1) Not a flagrant. The player was unimpeded to the basket even after Tate bumped his arm. I did not see a grab, I saw Tate stumble and hit his arm;
2) The 20 point deficit in the first half is 95% on the player and five percent on the coach; and,
3) The comeback in the second was 95% coaching. Groce has had some badly coached games, but this absolutely was not one of them.
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I disagree on all three, but that's OK. Goes to show that we can all see the same thing and draw very different conclusions.
 
#99      
CoalCity
EJ33 said:
Finke and Nichols were comparable to Morgan and Black. Thorne, Abrams, and Tate were wasted minutes. 4 points in 41 minutes.

Groce needs to shorten the bench and stop with the early substitutions - let the team get in rhythm, particularly on the road.

I've never seen a guy so stubbornly stick to losing strategies.
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Groce is supposedly a huge numbers and metrics guy. I'm curious what numbers and metrics he uses to justify the kind of minutes these guys are getting? I don't know how you can cook the numbers to make it look like a good idea.

Love the kids, they give it what they've got but what they've got isn't enough any more.
 
#100      
OrangeKrus28
This reminds me of all the close losses the Illini had before last year. In my opinion, the close losses hurt more than the blowouts. Although the Illini had no business beating Penn St, they made a furious comeback, locked down defensively, and their shots started going down. To see them make mistakes like they did in the final 1:30 is rough to see.

One thing I became accustomed to seeing was the Illini lose close games or play in many close contests that are decided in the last 2-3 minutes throughout the last decade. It hurts when they lose. I'd almost they rather just lost by 15 and moved on. But, to get to within 3 pts. and not execute in the crunch is disappointing. If you basically make up the whole deficit, finish it off. This was a must-win game and they lost. Now, they have to win a game they have no business winning vs. Wisky.
 
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