TSJ Thread

[illinifan1987]

See four possibilities of this ending early: (1) prosecutor, whether under political pressure or by herSelf, decides to reconsider the charges (doubt she would reconsider the lesser charge), (2) the witness recants out of the goodness of her heart (or someone delivers a bag), (3) a plea is negotiated to some minor assault charge, or (4) the judge decides the evidence offered at the preliminary hearing would not be sufficient to support a conviction (this would be unlikely, but maybe possible, if lack of consent is based upon Shannon representing he is a football player and the judge concludes that such a representation is not sufficient as a matter of law to invalidate consent). Or maybe some combination of the above.

It is doubtful if any pretrial diversion programs would apply or could be used in Kansas. There are programs in some states where a first time offender for some offenses can avoid a criminal record by meeting certain conditions, i.e. alcohol/drug treatment. These are only available for non-violent misdemeanor offenses typically. They also generally require a guilty plea.

As I said immediately after JWs press conference, as TSJs lawyer, assuming I couldn't get an outright dismissal, I would find out what the panel would be OK with and pursue a plea to a minor charge that I could present to the court at the 1/18 hearing - some minor charge for which the panel would be satisfied with the suspension already served or maybe another game or two. As someone suggested above, indecent exposure is about the only crime that is not considered a violent misdemeanor or felony that could be charged on these facts. I thought maybe there was a minor assault charge that could be used, but, in Alaska at least, vanilla assault charges of any degree require "physical injury" or fear of it. But I also discovered that in Alaska a lack of consent by misrepresentation requires the offender to impersonate a person known to the complaining party - the "I thought he was a football player" would not be enough to support a finding of a lack of consent.

If the rumors about what happened are true, these charges are over the top. But as someone once told me, there are four versions of the truth - (1) what you think happened, (2) what the other guy thinks happened, (3) what really happened, and (4) what the judge or jury thinks happened, and only the last one matters. Unfortunately, this is wrong in this case - for TSJ's basketball career, the only version that really matters is what the prosecutor thinks happened because she controls the narrative until resolution of the charges.

I see what you did there

 

[HereSoIDontGetFined]

First off, the way the charges are pled does not make sense. They have pled a lesser included offense as part of the original charges. I am not saying that never happens but is far from routine. Remember the Nunn case. There was a plea bargain and he pled to a lesser offense. You did not hear that before. It was part of a plea bargain where you put the lesser charge on the table. Or if you actually submit a case to trial, the prosecutor and/or the defense may ask for jury instructions on lesser included offenses. A chance at half a loaf for both the prosecutor and the defendant. But that is at the conclusion of the trial where the evidence brought out a trial may support the lesser charge. But come out of the gate with a lesser charge? You are basically saying your primary case is flawed before anything has happened. So now you plead a misdemeanor in the original charges and it is a good cya, although no good, ethical prosecutor would do that. If your evidence is not good enough, do not bring the original charge, was what I was taught by some awful good and awful straight mentors. So why not charge him just with a misdemeanor right out of the box? Misdemeanors do not bring headlines.

The problem I see is it is obvious they want him to plead to a lower misdemeanor charge. Sexual battery? Even as a misdemeanor, he is done, just like Nunn. They are not going to simply drop the charges now, Maybe a year from now when everything has quieted down and no one is talking and Shannon's lawyer tells them we are never pleading, if you want to get embarrassed, go ahead. Case gets dropped without any fanfare and the prosecutor who never should have brought a felony charge in the first place hopes it stays nice and quiet.

Which leaves the the option that the criminal charges remain pending, they will, but Shannon is reinstated. If you are the University, you better buckle up. You are reinstating an accused felonious deviate, or something like that. The University will get drawn and quartered, no matter what the truth is. It might be the right thing, I hope the administration has it in them.

Remember, except for this board and maybe Illini fans, this is already in the rear view mirror. Oh Shannon, the accused rapist. They do not know some of the real facts that have come out. So I would think this case is ripe for a preliminary hearing. At least you force them to lay most of their cards out in front of a judge. Most judges are thoughtful, deliberate and smart. You sometimes get some political hacks but that is more the exception. The judge will know when his nostrils are getting insulted and it will bring some of the true facts out in the open. You can ask for a preliminary hearing in Kansas unless you have been indicted by a grand jury. if they sneak in with a prosecutor controlled grand jury, as some have noted, it is nothing more than a rubber stamp, and use that as a way to keep preliminary hearing facts under wrap, that would be something worthy of Chicago corruption at its finest, but you never know.

Man, if it were me, and I know I didn't touch anyone, there's no way I'm pleading to anything. I'm obviously somewhat biased, but rape/SA sits just behind murder as one of the worst things you can do to another human being. To have my name attached to that forever? Nope. Not going to live my life with that stain on it.

Not saying TSJ feels the same way, though. If I were him, I may be more concerned about whether I can still capture future earnings regardless of what people will think.

 

[Grange Grover]

I think we'd all be completely fine with that. Fingers crossed that it's sooner...like January 18th

I’ve had Jan 21 circled as my guess for his return. After the first court appearance and it’s a Home game, noon tip. I don’t think it would be wise to bring him back at Michigan. Jan 21 is home. Next game is at NU (assembly hall north) next game is back at home. Nice 3 game stretch to get him back.

 

[FAR Penthouse]

Agreed with theGman. Kansas law unfortunately doesn’t require a grand jury so we may never seen an indictment. Instead there will likely be a preliminary hearing where the judge will determine if there is sufficient evidence to go forward. In my experience working with the courts, I’ve never seen a case be dismissed at the preliminary hearing. For what that’s worth. Not impossible, just very rare.

But in this instance, a preliminary is better because at least the defense can cross. I would have more faith in a judge (particularly a veteran) throwing out a charge at a preliminary versus a grand jury.

But in this instance, a preliminary is better because at least the defense can cross. I would have more faith in a judge (particularly a veteran) throwing out a charge at a preliminary versus a grand jury.

Don’t be too hopefull. The burden of proof at a prelim is probable cause, and that’s a very low hurdle to clear. Additionally the Judge will not weigh the credibility of witnesses or consider affirmative defenses at this time. In 37 years of practicing criminal law I’ve had only 3 occasions where I got the case dismissed at the preliminary hearing.

 

[SuperintendentChalmers]

Man, if it were me, and I know I didn't touch anyone, there's no way I'm pleading to anything. I'm obviously somewhat biased, but rape/SA sits just behind murder as one of the worst things you can do to another human being. To have my name attached to that forever? Nope. Not going to live my life with that stain on it.

Not saying TSJ feels the same way, though. If I were him, I may be more concerned about whether I can still capture future earnings regardless of what people will think.

Yes, he can’t plead even to a sex crime misdemeanor if he believes he’s innocent, even if that decision means he misses the rest of our season.

 

[skyIdub]

When......he comes back, I hope he is madder than a mosquito in a mannequin factory.

And he comes in like a wrecking ball.

 

[Illwinsagain]

When......he comes back, I hope he is madder than a mosquito in a mannequin factory.

And he comes in like a wrecking ball.

Wow, that is a little disturbing.

 

[jacekpardol]

Don’t be too hopefull. The burden of proof at a prelim is probable cause, and that’s a very low hurdle to clear. Additionally the Judge will not weigh the credibility of witnesses or consider affirmative defenses at this time. In 37 years of practicing criminal law I’ve had only 3 occasions where I got the case dismissed at the preliminary hearing.

Right. This is why I don't feel terribly optomistic about a return to the program. Judge won't drop, DA won't drop, I think the best best is for the accuser to drop. I hope TSJ has some agressive lawyers who are making it known that he will sue for defamation, pain/suffering and loss in wages.

 

[skyIdub]

Wow, that is a little disturbing.

It's kind of the theme for this whole mess....

 

[oskeewowwowboomtime]

Things that could be explained by a desperate DA?

Although few actual facts are known about the alleged incident at issue (which is why we should all reserve judgment on the merits of the case, difficult as that be as ILLINI) the following facts are known and undisputed about Douglas County Kansas District Attorney Suzanne Valdez, who brought the charges against TJ as this information about her is of public record:
1. The head of the prosecutor’s office, former University of Kansas law professor Suzanne Valdez, was elected in 2020 after the previous prosecutor charged one of her students with making a false rape report. The charge was eventually dropped amid intense pressure. Valdez said law enforcement in Lawrence failed to protect women.
2. District Attorney Valdez is currently facing the suspension of her law license following completion on December 20, 2023 of a 3 day disciplinary hearing. At the conclusion of the hearing, special prosecutor Kimberly Bonifas asked the panel to consider whether they believe the testimony of Valdez and Deputy DA Joshua Seiden, or that of the other 13 witnesses who testified. One of those witnesses, Judge Stacey Donovan, testified at the hearing that Douglas County judges feel as though there’s a black cloud hanging over their heads because they feel they must constantly operate with an abundance of caution. She said she believes Valdez’s conduct has eroded the public’s trust in the judicial system. Donovan said the judges try to avoid meeting with Valdez alone. They prefer to have all communication with her in writing because they’re worried that their words will get twisted.
4. At her disciplinary hearing, evidence was presented about DA Valdez' prior written public statements: “To suggest that he (Chief Judge McCabria) and I met personally or consulted about the jury trial plan, or that he invited or asked for my or my office’s input is simply false,” she wrote in public statements. “… Unfortunately, this is yet another example of how an outspoken and honest woman is mischaracterized as untruthful by a male in power.” She also wrote a text message to Judge McCabria that said “You should be ashamed of yourself. We were TOLD, not consulted. The only reason you commented is because I am a Hispanic female (in) a position of power. … I will shine the light of truth on everything,” Valdez wrote in text messages to McCabria on March 22, 2021, according to the complaint.
5. At the conclusion of the disciplinary hearing, in her closing arguments, Special Prosecutor Bonifas asked the panel to impose a one-year suspension of Valdez’s law license.
6. Last but not least, DA Valdez also put out this public statement on her Facebook page: “Women of the world- be prepared! If you are hardworking, outspoken, honest, AND in a position of authority, the INSECURE MAN will try to tear you down. Not me, says I!!”

Good luck getting the charges dropped . . .

 

[illinihawk16]

Although few actual facts are known about the alleged incident at issue (which is why we should all reserve judgment on the merits of the case, difficult as that be as ILLINI) the following facts are known and undisputed about Douglas County Kansas District Attorney Suzanne Valdez, who brought the charges against TJ as this information about her is of public record:
1. The head of the prosecutor’s office, former University of Kansas law professor Suzanne Valdez, was elected in 2020 after the previous prosecutor charged one of her students with making a false rape report. The charge was eventually dropped amid intense pressure. Valdez said law enforcement in Lawrence failed to protect women.
2. District Attorney Valdez is currently facing the suspension of her law license following completion on December 20, 2023 of a 3 day disciplinary hearing. At the conclusion of the hearing, special prosecutor Kimberly Bonifas asked the panel to consider whether they believe the testimony of Valdez and Deputy DA Joshua Seiden, or that of the other 13 witnesses who testified. One of those witnesses, Judge Stacey Donovan, testified at the hearing that Douglas County judges feel as though there’s a black cloud hanging over their heads because they feel they must constantly operate with an abundance of caution. She said she believes Valdez’s conduct has eroded the public’s trust in the judicial system. Donovan said the judges try to avoid meeting with Valdez alone. They prefer to have all communication with her in writing because they’re worried that their words will get twisted.
4. At her disciplinary hearing, evidence was presented about DA Valdez' prior written public statements: “To suggest that he (Chief Judge McCabria) and I met personally or consulted about the jury trial plan, or that he invited or asked for my or my office’s input is simply false,” she wrote in public statements. “… Unfortunately, this is yet another example of how an outspoken and honest woman is mischaracterized as untruthful by a male in power.” She also wrote a text message to Judge McCabria that said “You should be ashamed of yourself. We were TOLD, not consulted. The only reason you commented is because I am a Hispanic female (in) a position of power. … I will shine the light of truth on everything,” Valdez wrote in text messages to McCabria on March 22, 2021, according to the complaint.
5. At the conclusion of the disciplinary hearing, in her closing arguments, Special Prosecutor Bonifas asked the panel to impose a one-year suspension of Valdez’s law license.
6. Last but not least, DA Valdez also put out this public statement on her Facebook page: “Women of the world- be prepared! If you are hardworking, outspoken, honest, AND in a position of authority, the INSECURE MAN will try to tear you down. Not me, says I!!”

Good luck getting the charges dropped . . .

Didn't one of her associate DAs (not sure if that's the title) bring the charges, not Valdez? Not saying Valdez wouldn't have been involved in the case, but thought I saw that earlier.

 

[FlotownIllini]

Didn't one of her associate DAs (not sure if that's the title) bring the charges, not Valdez? Not saying Valdez wouldn't have been involved in the case, but thought I saw that earlier.

I believe that is correct. And I'm wondering if that was done, at least in part, due to the status of her license being on somewhat shaky ground at the moment

 

[jacekpardol]

Didn't one of her associate DAs (not sure if that's the title) bring the charges, not Valdez? Not saying Valdez wouldn't have been involved in the case, but thought I saw that earlier.

Her associate reports to her. She's the boss and calls the shots.

 

[DeonThomas]

A few things:
- I am a long time lurker of this board, never made an account because I preferred to read the discussions, not engage in them. This is my first post.
- I am NOT an insider
- I do NOT claim to know exactly what happened in this case, only sharing information that was just shared with me
- I am NOT claiming this to be factual information, rather sharing information I just received.
- I did NOT solicit this information from this individual, they reached out to me with no previous contact.

I run an Illinois fan account on Twitter, it's relatively small (~1k followers) and I primarily use it to keep up with the Illini. Over the last couple of days, I've tweeted a lot about my *personal* opinion on this case. In doing so, I've attracted a lot of traffic to this account.

That's the context, here's the information.

I just had a former University of Illinois athlete direct message me asking me to use my Twitter platform to share the following. This person was not wanting to share from their account, and asked me to leave their name out of it. This individual is currently friends with numerous players on both the basketball and football teams and shared that everyone is shocked and extremely emotional stating that this could have been any of them. Below is what he wanted me to share:
- Terrence Shannon is innocent, deserves the benefit of the doubt
- The bar the incident occurred at is The Hawk (nickname for Jayhawk Cafe), made mention that if you look it up now, it says 'temporarily closed'.
- TSJ never left the bar with the accuser
- TSJ did not previously know the accuser, met them on the trip to KS
- TSJ's camp (players included) do not think the trial will survive due to lack of evidence (it's a he said/she said situation).
- Only surveillance footage of the two (TSJ and the accuser) is of them talking.

Again, just sharing information I received from a former U of I athlete who is currently a lot closer to the situation than any of us are to the situation. This person is still on campus and friends with current players from both big revenue sports.

Please delete if this is not allowed.

Thank you for sharing, Nashville.

 

[Chad Fleck]

Can someone explain why TSJ, is called TJ?

 

[jumpingjack]

Can someone explain why TSJ, is called TJ?

Terrence Junior

 

[89illini]

Can someone explain why TSJ, is called TJ?

Is Junior part of the last name?


The suffix is an explanation of the first name, not the last. "John Doe Jr." means he is John, the son of John. In a full name listing, the suffix follows the last name because the person is primarily known by is given name and surname, the suffix being a secondary piece of information.

This drives me crazy. If you want to shorten his initials, he's TS, not TJ.

 

[illini0440]

Is Junior part of the last name?


The suffix is an explanation of the first name, not the last. "John Doe Jr." means he is John, the son of John. In a full name listing, the suffix follows the last name because the person is primarily known by is given name and surname, the suffix being a secondary piece of information.

This drives me crazy. If you want to shorten his initials, he's TS, not TJ.

It’s just his nickname….relax

 

[theNewGuy]

Is Junior part of the last name?


The suffix is an explanation of the first name, not the last. "John Doe Jr." means he is John, the son of John. In a full name listing, the suffix follows the last name because the person is primarily known by is given name and surname, the suffix being a secondary piece of information.

This drives me crazy. If you want to shorten his initials, he's TS, not TJ.

Didn't realize this was such a concern to people but here it goes...
TJ is a nickname not a shortening of his initials... The J isn't even a part of his initials... idek what his middle name is.

Lots of people go by AJ, JJ, CJ, etc. and our insiders here constantly call him TJ.

It is literally just a nickname, just like TSJ

Thank you @illini0440 for beating me to it lol

 

[Tacomallini]

Can someone explain why TSJ, is called TJ?

Travesty of Justice

 

[mrh vet]

Don’t be too hopefull. The burden of proof at a prelim is probable cause, and that’s a very low hurdle to clear. Additionally the Judge will not weigh the credibility of witnesses or consider affirmative defenses at this time. In 37 years of practicing criminal law I’ve had only 3 occasions where I got the case dismissed at the preliminary hearing.

All true but I would try it as a way to get some of the facts out in the open. I see it as a no lose from that angle. We on this board know everything or some think they do. The rest of the people in the country, well they have heard he has been accused of rape. Even with a probable cause standard I think if some of the evidence we are hearing comes out, and is publicized, there is going to be some head scratching. I think it is important in the court of public opinion in the event he is reinstated with criminal felony charges still pending. I think that is a certainty, the charges pending part anyway. Even if someone shows up at the accusers door with a Brinks truck, the charges are brought by the State of Kansas, not the accuser. The best the accuser can do is recant, which is going to put her in jeopardy since she no doubt has already signed something under oath, or say she is not going to cooperate. That later is the more likely scenario but that does not mean the prosecutor will drop the charges. After some of what I read about this prosecutor, I think that is unlikely until somewhere down the road when this is not in the limelight

 

[oskeewowwowboomtime]

Didn't one of her associate DAs (not sure if that's the title) bring the charges, not Valdez? Not saying Valdez wouldn't have been involved in the case, but thought I saw that earlier.

Yes, you are correct that it is Chief Assistant District Attorney Jennifer Tatum that is actually named in the Complaint and signed it. She was hired by DA Valdez in September of 2022 and reports directly to DA Valdez. My post was not intended to disparage or comment on Ms. Tatum whatsoever. My post was simply intended to point out some potential troubling facts relative to Douglas County District Attorney Valdez and how that might impact on the charges that have been brought against TSJ.
Remember, according to the National District Attorneys' Association, "a District Attorney represents the people of their jurisdiction and has a duty to seek justice in every case, carefully evaluating the evidence presented and protecting the rights of the accused". Let's hope that is what occurs in TSJ's case.

 

[Moe Bias]

This is Duke Lacrosse 2.0

 

[ugottabjoshinme]

It's saying this took place the afternoon of the day after the game (Saturday afternoon), not the evening of the game (Friday night) as previously disclosed.

We already knew the alleged incident happened on Saturday Sept 9, not Friday night. That came out of Whitman’s press conference. See Werner’s recap timeline.

'Basketball must take a backseat': Whitman details Terrence Shannon Jr. suspension, what's next

Illinois athletics director Josh Whitman explained the timeline and process that triggered Illini star guard's suspension following arrest

247sports.com

 

[Chase321]

We already knew the alleged incident happened on Saturday Sept 9, not Friday night. That came out of Whitman’s press conference. See Werner’s recap timeline.

'Basketball must take a backseat': Whitman details Terrence Shannon Jr. suspension, what's next

Illinois athletics director Josh Whitman explained the timeline and process that triggered Illini star guard's suspension following arrest

247sports.com

Sure. But I figured that meant after midnight. Not Saturday afternoon.