BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
No, but that's not what happened.
Winthrop 84, Illinois 80 OT POSTGAME
Groce is trending up on wins/losses? We have not made the NCAA in 3 consecutive years. The last time this happened was 1977-80. Fanbase support? You must be joking. Player personal issues? Read my previous post. We had become the laughing stock of college basketball with our prominent position on the police blotter and multiple other intra-squad incidents the last few years. His recruiting class this year is improvement IMO, but his overall recruiting in the last 5 years has definitely not been great. In game coaching? You'd be the judge.
This has been a typical statement after a bad loss. Bringing the examples of bad losses by Self, Coach K, Izzo, etc. Oh look at Self/Coach K/Izzo... they had some bad losses. It is very easy to match the bad losses in their resume. Every coach can do that. It is the rest of their resume filled with successes that is difficult to match.
I see a lot of posters calling for this type of play in game winning situations, and it's contrary to conventional wisdom. Generally when it comes to game deciding plays at the end of regulation, refs are going to swallow their whistle. I can't immediately find the Michael Jordan quote, but this is why you saw so many of his game winners come via the midrange jumper - he knew the probability of getting hacked at the rim with no whistle was likely.
Also, a Malcolm jumper at the elbow is a shot we should take every time if we can get it. That's his bread and butter. THAT BEING SAID; no clue why they sent Finke up for a high ball screen when Malcolm had his defender isolated up top. Let Malcolm beat that guy - don't draw another defender to the area. Spread everybody out and let Malcolm create space to get a good look.
This plus Tevo's post say it all. Very rational evaluation.
For me personally, the way we (failed to) show up for the NIT after missing the dance two seasons ago was beyond sad, and was an ah-ha moment for me about our coach. I could that performance coming a mile away, and it came anyway. If you can't get your team to man up and take pride in the post-season, something's wrong.
Since then, I've seen too many games where guys weren't, in my estimation, prepared to play. There were so many mental mistakes last night, it made me wonder if I couldn't have coached better. Not saying I could, but it's not often I think that. If it were just an off night, I wouldn't worry that much about it. I've written off plenty of games as a fan. For me, it's the pattern.
Some side notes:
Tracy brought it.
Tate - I don't get people dogging him. Thought he played well. Exceptional offense always trumps exceptional defense, that's why you don't see shut-outs in basketball. That Johnson kid was frickin insane.
Our front court executed poorly. Lotta weak moves and slop.
Hill was MIA
Team was lost down the stretch and I didn't see one single player step up. Someone needed to call a team huddle or get on guys during stoppages.
Despite all that, it's still just one game. A win and some good bball will turn it around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyIdub
My God, what a huge difference there is in University of Illinois fans vs. University of Illinois supporters.
I support this team, these kids, this coaching staff..unconditionally.. as long as they represent this University.
If this staff continues to run a program that holds young men accountable and continues to recruit without succumbing to the dirty BS we all know takes the 5 star recruits out of this state....the same kind many of you thought would take JT away from us last week...I will support them week in and week out. I will grumble at the losses, shake my head at the bad ones such as this, and clap, stomp and cheer at the wins.
The NCAA has created this atmosphere where winning at any cost, money, exposure, and irrational upheaval take precedent over education and morals.
We lost to Winthrop. Get over it. Victory comes in other forms. Winning a basketball game isn't necessarily the biggest victory. }}}}}}}}....SKYIDUB
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Read this folks, winning is an important metric but it is not the only metric. Like I said before Groce represents the university well and is building recruiting momentum. In the past this is what gets coaches fired at Illinois. 1. Win/losses 2. Recruiting failures 3.Fanbase support 4. Player Personal Issues (behavior, grades). If I'm the AD I feel we are trending upward on all 4, not ready to start over again. Possibly look at coaching changes, which many have recommended in the past.
This might be the best team in the last 8-9 years. Bad news for a team on the NCAA bubble, but talent wise that is where we are at and that is where the program has been for the last 8-9 years. How many bad losses has Self/Kansas had in the NCAA?
I'd take Self and his bad losses (and consistent success and NCAA title) here in a second. Are you implying in your second paragraph that we should be happy with being a bubble team, just because we've been bad for so long?
And as has been mentioned previously, this "winning isn't the only metric" is the sad-sack rationalization of fans of losing programs. It's entirely hollow and meaningless, and when you're winning, no one cares about that stuff anymore. Peewee leagues, that's fine. Major college basketball, forget it.
It's something we all knew, but it's nice to see it acknowledged in writing (and Robert knows this as well as any one of us):
"Which means I feel like I can say this with confidence now: In those eight years, our fanbase has the worst fan experience of any major conference team."
Nah, that's probably reserved for Wake Forest. Their football program is right there with ours too.
frozenrope9190
- Aurora, IL
There's also Boston College. Their experience has been pretty bad.
What makes it extra hard is that we're freaking ILLINOIS! We don't have much of a football tradition, but we're a top-15 all-time basketball program. For schools like Northwestern and Rutgers, it's different. Fans like me (and many of you) grew up watching top-10 teams year in and year out. We were a perennial threat to make the Elite 8 or beyond. We would absolute throttle non-conference opponents and then cruise to 12, 13, 14 wins in the Big Ten. We were basically what Michigan State is currently. We would run most teams off the court every single freaking year. We were invincible on our home court. We were a borderline elite juggernaut. That's why this is so incredibly frustrating.
Illinifanatic4ever
- Orange & Blue Blood in my Veins
Too early to give up on this team. Should have won no doubt but the Big Ten is struggling with teams far worse than Winthrop. MSU wins by 1 at home to FGCU. Purdue has to score final 20 at home to beat Georgia State by 8. Ohio State and Maryland have both underwhelmed at home to inferior teams. Next 4 games will tell us everything we will need to know.
Of course they have a chance. But Groce's history tells you that they'll lose a bunch of games they should have won and they'll go under .500 in the Big Ten...again.
That WVU outcome could be ugly
haasi
- New York
Right, I don't think it's likely. Just saying that if he doesn't think through back channels that we are set up to land a great hire, very hard to fire Groce given how good recruiting class is. Lovie was an exception because deal was set before Cubit was gone. That's completely abnormal. But what I'm talking about is putting out feelers, getting a sense if there are a couple of really good people out there who might be interested in the job sufficient to feel confident before firing Groce.
After taking a night to think about all those plays at the end of regulation after Jaylon's 3, I can't help but wonder what would have happened if we just gave the ball to Tracy and said, "drive it and make something good happen". It's actually surprised me how much Tracy has backed off the PG role and let Jaylon run the offense.
I get that Malcolm is a much better scorer and shooter than Tracy, but it just seems like great things happen when TA has a head of steam going towards the basket. I just can't get that terrific end of game drive against Miami out of my head. TA's drives have always seemed more under control, unlike Jaylon's wild stabs and chucks, and the bigs can do something with the offensive rebound even if he misses.
I guess I just hated that all we tried to do was post feeds and Malcolm isos
I get that Malcolm is a much better scorer and shooter than Tracy, but it just seems like great things happen when TA has a head of steam going towards the basket. I just can't get that terrific end of game drive against Miami out of my head. TA's drives have always seemed more under control, unlike Jaylon's wild stabs and chucks, and the bigs can do something with the offensive rebound even if he misses.
I guess I just hated that all we tried to do was post feeds and Malcolm isos
Yep. Also a complaint of mine. Especially if we go to a zone on defense. He's an expert in the 2-3. He should have spelled Malcolm at least some in the game.
Nice read. I mean, the story sucks, but the telling is really good.
Especially when three or four of those post feeds sailed out of bounds over the center's head.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
This is a basketball forum. There's only one form of basketball victory that I'm aware of.
Backed off I dont think is the right term. Groce has forced the ball out of Tracys hand at the 1. groce doesnt trust or doesnt like JCL at the 2 enough to give Tracy quality time at the 1. The reason Tates been there so much is cause Tracy is "forced" to play the 2. I like two PG systems, but not when Tates the lead guard.
Haha, this should be the tagline of Alioneye.com.
Doesn't help that Mav was playing like there was a carbon monoxide leak in the arena.
While the end of this game left a TON to be desired, I'm not jumping off the ledge just yet. Winthrop just lost by 14 to a ranked Florida State team WITHOUT Keon Johnson. Was he worth +14 over their backup point guard? I'd assume so.
Last night hurt, but it's not a death sentence.
Last night hurt, but it's not a death sentence.