2017 Coaching Carousel

Status
Not open for further replies.
#2,726      
PhillyIllini
Second and Chalmers said:
Well, given that the people in the know were telling us that Whitman was going to fire Bill Cubit on day 1 because Lovie Smith had agreed to become our head coach, we should probably listen to them.

There are no insiders.
Click to expand...

This is the mantra. There are no insiders. Insiders are none.
 
#2,728      
ILHoff
illininks said:
I dunno. I still think Martin is an extremely safe pick right now but doubt his ceiling, but he did well at Mo. St. where CIT and NIT tourney appearances (Champions of the former) are pretty good accomplishments, especially after taking over a mess.

Then achieving success at a Tennessee program that Pearl made completely unattractive in every way (despite retaining some of Pearl's acquired talent) and having a S16 there is really notable.

At Cal there are miserable resources, but in a conference that may be stronger at the top than the BIG, he's having a better year with more young talent than we have at Illinois.

In short I think if we can't get a Dream catch (Bennett, Miller, etc) I'd be good with a Martin hire, but looking at Keatts/Mussleman has me just as excited as him. I think Martin may have the lowest floor. But the other 2 are just so unpredictable. Tough call.

I wouldn't want to stay at cal if I'm Martin, though. So I certainly don't want a desperate candidate unless he can get us to a F4
Click to expand...


I always appreciate when someone is able to say exactly what I'm incapable of typing. Thank you.

For me Martin seems like the perfect fit right now. I think he would have the best chance of retaining our current recruits since he's from East St. Louis. Plus that area is producing a lot of talent lately with Hargrove and Liddell next in line. He recruited Charlie Moore out of Morgan Park. We never seem to grab the best talent from the Irvin's unless it's a legacy recruit. He's also proven he can recruit 5 star talent as a head coach.

I think some are underestimating his coaching ability. He has one blow out loss this year to Oregon (correct me if I'm wrong there) and is actually putting competitive teams on the floor against UCLA and Zona. He lost some very good talent from last year, and outside of the Dukes and Kentucky's not too many programs recover as easily the next year. His first round exit last year was due to injuries and foul trouble. He's got a Sweet 16 at Tennessee under his belt, but he doesn't seem to be getting credit for that.

All that said I'm definitely intrigued by some of the other names out there, but they seem maybe a little riskier than Martin IMO.
 
#2,729      
MakesNoSense
I don't want to hear about Nnanna Egwu. I don't want to hear about effort, or heart, or whatever other mythical source (grit?) gets credited for defensive effectiveness. It's about preparation and awareness.

So that tells me that our coaches are 1) failing in the short term by adequately preparing us to understand what a given opponent will throw at us and 2) failing in the long term by not being able to determine what it takes to get the players we have know and implement our basic defensive principles.[/QUOTE]

Sorry but grit, effort, and heart is what makes a great defender and ultimately a great defense.
 
#2,731      
BananaShampoo
You know how I know absolutely, for sure, no question about it that we need a new coach? I felt compelled to change my avi from the JFG neon sign back to Grange. Perhaps I should just keep it this way.
 
#2,733      
breadman
As ugly as our away games have been, and quite frankly, as difficult as it has been to win our home games, with the exception of the UMich very welcome blow out, I'm going to say Groce will make this year's NCAA big dance, and he will be back next year to usher in our recruits, which hopefully will include "Mr. Smith goes to Chambana".
The reason I say this is that I'm trying to watch other games from around the country, as I'm sure a lot of you do, and I'm seeing teams that are really no better, record-wise than us. Look at NC State on the road at Duke tonight. They are playing inspired ball right now. We can do this.
 
#2,734      
bombayIllini
jmilt7 said:
Not meant to be an attack but you seem to contradict yourself. Your sound observations in your first paragraph seem to belie your call for another year. Have you read the last, oh, 50 pages or so of this thread? I was on the fence before I started reading this thread but am firmly in the "he's gotta go" camp now.
Click to expand...

Well.

My feeling, based on observing Groce, is that he is a low risk guy.

Which is why I would like him next year. He will be forced to play FRs. 4 would be FR, some 2 SO and 5 JRs.

My gut feel is IF the next year class was to play this year, Groce would have sat them on the bench, perhaps playing the C position to some extent. The moment that 5* made a mistake he would have found his place on the bench. That is Groce.

Next year he has no choice. The quality of that class + the mix of years, with no SRs, will force Groce to play them. That the class is highly qualified and thus extra pressure from the audience is another factor - but I doubt Groce would feel the external pressure that much. Groce - to me - is a one track coach. Unable to deviate - just too much risk.

I think IF Groce plays the new kids and still just about makes it to the dance + gets another good class, no one will ask him to leave.
 
#2,735      
coachej
Why would we want him to coach these incoming freshman? Who has he developed? We need to move on.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
#2,736      
breadman
bombayIllini said:
Well.

My feeling, based on observing Groce, is that he is a low risk guy.

Which is why I would like him next year. He will be forced to play FRs. 4 would be FR, some 2 SO and 5 JRs.

My gut feel is IF the next year class was to play this year, Groce would have sat them on the bench, perhaps playing the C position to some extent. The moment that 5* made a mistake he would have found his place on the bench. That is Groce.

Next year he has no choice. The quality of that class + the mix of years, with no SRs, will force Groce to play them. That the class is highly qualified and thus extra pressure from the audience is another factor - but I doubt Groce would feel the external pressure that much. Groce - to me - is a one track coach. Unable to deviate - just too much risk.

I think IF Groce plays the new kids and still just about makes it to the dance + gets another good class, no one will ask him to leave.
Click to expand...


I like this.
 
#2,737      
WesterveltVictoryCigar
bombayIllini said:
Well.

My feeling, based on observing Groce, is that he is a low risk guy.

Which is why I would like him next year. He will be forced to play FRs. 4 would be FR, some 2 SO and 5 JRs.

My gut feel is IF the next year class was to play this year, Groce would have sat them on the bench, perhaps playing the C position to some extent. The moment that 5* made a mistake he would have found his place on the bench. That is Groce.

Next year he has no choice. The quality of that class + the mix of years, with no SRs, will force Groce to play them. That the class is highly qualified and thus extra pressure from the audience is another factor - but I doubt Groce would feel the external pressure that much. Groce - to me - is a one track coach. Unable to deviate - just too much risk.

I think IF Groce plays the new kids and still just about makes it to the dance + gets another good class, no one will ask him to leave.
Click to expand...

Just about everything in your post screams to make a change, not bring him back.
 
#2,740      
Smacko
There is ALWAYS next years recruits coming in. We give him another year because of the '17 class and miss the dance and then oh no we can't fire him we will lose our '18 class and so on. At a certain point you have to bite the bullet and understand that there may be some short term pain involved.
 
#2,741      
TCTORNADO
Geo76 said:
'I think IF Groce plays the new kids and still just about makes it to the dance + gets another good class, no one will ask him to leave."

Wow! It's pretty obvious to many of us that the replacement of JG is happening two years to late. When that 14/15 team went 2-6 down the stretch and quit in the Big tourney and NIT, the critiques were almost identical to what we read now. Only thing that has changed is that our record has gotten worse.

Before JG we never missed the 64 team dance more than 2 years in a row. This year makes 4 in a row.

Love what I read about KK, but wonder how a guy went from being a prep school coach to assistant at Louisville?
Click to expand...

He produced 103 DivI players and 5 NBA players while he was at Hargrave.
 
#2,742      
coltjames03
Man it's so funny that people are using an injury as an excuse for Martin but say can't use that excuse for Groce. Guess it depends on who you are what excuses you have. Martin has done nothing and someone show me the proof where has done anything with the programs he has been at. Look at Cal for instance It's constantly been a top 3 in PAC 12 program before Martin. Martin did that last year and this year and first year not going to be close to top 3.
 
#2,743      
bombayIllini
Second and Chalmers said:
I can assure you that if we miss the tournament for five consecutive years under the same coach, I will be vociferously asking him to leave.
Click to expand...

1) My arg comes as a package and it never included "miss the tournament"
2) With my package, even if he does NOT make the tourney, you and me may/will not like it. BUT, it may not mean that he will be let go. Of course, IF he does not make the tourney, there will be other factors, but that is a diff rabbit hole


My gut feel, no matter how good or bad Groce is as a coach, next years team will perform better - PROVIDED - he lets them play. Groce HAS to take that risk, so that the kids can take the risk. Think about it, Groce took a risk of letting Tate and Tracy play the Point (over Lucas!!!!!!). Well, Tate was a given for three years - I do not think anyone would object if I were to say he was not meant to be (being the internet, it really does not come across right, but it is not a knock on a very fine young man). Tracy, well, less said the better. Again, not a knock. HOWEVER< it is thsi risk that Groce took that is just about cost Groce his job at UoI - or that is the arg being made.

All I am saying is that Groce should have taken the *same* risk with Lucas. We ALL know the Tate.Tracy story. We have no clue about the Lucas story. I am betting - because Groce is a one track mind - neither is he aware of that story (of what Lucas would do). Groce is so immersed in practice-dictate-the-outcome-of-the-game that he does not look at alternatives.


ANyways, I think I have exceeded my post count for the month. :)
 
#2,746      
coachej
Hoiberg going to make it another year for the bulls? He is a good college coach.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
#2,747      
ILLINIinSC
What do you all think the chances of getting Tony Bennett from Virginia to Illinois?
 
#2,750      
MadSeason
coltjames03 said:
Look at Cal for instance It's constantly been a top 3 in PAC 12 program before Martin. Martin did that last year and this year and first year not going to be close to top 3.
Click to expand...

That's really not accurate at all. Cal's placement in the Pac 12 since 2002

2014- 7
2013- 4
2012- 3
2011- 5
2010- 1
2009- 4
2008- 9
2007- 8
2006- 3
2005- 9
2004- 5
2003- 3
2002- 2

Average 4.84= More a top 5ish.

Martin is:

2015- 8
2016- 3
2017- 5th in progress.

Not seeing the drop off
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back