PhillyIllini
- Los Angeles
This is the mantra. There are no insiders. Insiders are none.
2017 Coaching Carousel
- Status
This is the mantra. There are no insiders. Insiders are none.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
I always appreciate when someone is able to say exactly what I'm incapable of typing. Thank you.
For me Martin seems like the perfect fit right now. I think he would have the best chance of retaining our current recruits since he's from East St. Louis. Plus that area is producing a lot of talent lately with Hargrove and Liddell next in line. He recruited Charlie Moore out of Morgan Park. We never seem to grab the best talent from the Irvin's unless it's a legacy recruit. He's also proven he can recruit 5 star talent as a head coach.
I think some are underestimating his coaching ability. He has one blow out loss this year to Oregon (correct me if I'm wrong there) and is actually putting competitive teams on the floor against UCLA and Zona. He lost some very good talent from last year, and outside of the Dukes and Kentucky's not too many programs recover as easily the next year. His first round exit last year was due to injuries and foul trouble. He's got a Sweet 16 at Tennessee under his belt, but he doesn't seem to be getting credit for that.
All that said I'm definitely intrigued by some of the other names out there, but they seem maybe a little riskier than Martin IMO.
I don't want to hear about Nnanna Egwu. I don't want to hear about effort, or heart, or whatever other mythical source (grit?) gets credited for defensive effectiveness. It's about preparation and awareness.
So that tells me that our coaches are 1) failing in the short term by adequately preparing us to understand what a given opponent will throw at us and 2) failing in the long term by not being able to determine what it takes to get the players we have know and implement our basic defensive principles.[/QUOTE]
Sorry but grit, effort, and heart is what makes a great defender and ultimately a great defense.
So that tells me that our coaches are 1) failing in the short term by adequately preparing us to understand what a given opponent will throw at us and 2) failing in the long term by not being able to determine what it takes to get the players we have know and implement our basic defensive principles.[/QUOTE]
Sorry but grit, effort, and heart is what makes a great defender and ultimately a great defense.
Those attributes matter, but so does scheme, and we fail in both areas when Nnanna Egwu isn't cleaning up for everyone.
BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
You know how I know absolutely, for sure, no question about it that we need a new coach? I felt compelled to change my avi from the JFG neon sign back to Grange. Perhaps I should just keep it this way.
We try hard. We really do.
The traits we're missing are confidence, instinct, awareness, some of it natural, some of it coached.
As ugly as our away games have been, and quite frankly, as difficult as it has been to win our home games, with the exception of the UMich very welcome blow out, I'm going to say Groce will make this year's NCAA big dance, and he will be back next year to usher in our recruits, which hopefully will include "Mr. Smith goes to Chambana".
The reason I say this is that I'm trying to watch other games from around the country, as I'm sure a lot of you do, and I'm seeing teams that are really no better, record-wise than us. Look at NC State on the road at Duke tonight. They are playing inspired ball right now. We can do this.
The reason I say this is that I'm trying to watch other games from around the country, as I'm sure a lot of you do, and I'm seeing teams that are really no better, record-wise than us. Look at NC State on the road at Duke tonight. They are playing inspired ball right now. We can do this.
Well.
My feeling, based on observing Groce, is that he is a low risk guy.
Which is why I would like him next year. He will be forced to play FRs. 4 would be FR, some 2 SO and 5 JRs.
My gut feel is IF the next year class was to play this year, Groce would have sat them on the bench, perhaps playing the C position to some extent. The moment that 5* made a mistake he would have found his place on the bench. That is Groce.
Next year he has no choice. The quality of that class + the mix of years, with no SRs, will force Groce to play them. That the class is highly qualified and thus extra pressure from the audience is another factor - but I doubt Groce would feel the external pressure that much. Groce - to me - is a one track coach. Unable to deviate - just too much risk.
I think IF Groce plays the new kids and still just about makes it to the dance + gets another good class, no one will ask him to leave.
Just about everything in your post screams to make a change, not bring him back.
I can assure you that if we miss the tournament for five consecutive years under the same coach, I will be vociferously asking him to leave.
Recruiting connections.
There is ALWAYS next years recruits coming in. We give him another year because of the '17 class and miss the dance and then oh no we can't fire him we will lose our '18 class and so on. At a certain point you have to bite the bullet and understand that there may be some short term pain involved.
He produced 103 DivI players and 5 NBA players while he was at Hargrave.
Man it's so funny that people are using an injury as an excuse for Martin but say can't use that excuse for Groce. Guess it depends on who you are what excuses you have. Martin has done nothing and someone show me the proof where has done anything with the programs he has been at. Look at Cal for instance It's constantly been a top 3 in PAC 12 program before Martin. Martin did that last year and this year and first year not going to be close to top 3.
1) My arg comes as a package and it never included "miss the tournament"
2) With my package, even if he does NOT make the tourney, you and me may/will not like it. BUT, it may not mean that he will be let go. Of course, IF he does not make the tourney, there will be other factors, but that is a diff rabbit hole
My gut feel, no matter how good or bad Groce is as a coach, next years team will perform better - PROVIDED - he lets them play. Groce HAS to take that risk, so that the kids can take the risk. Think about it, Groce took a risk of letting Tate and Tracy play the Point (over Lucas!!!!!!). Well, Tate was a given for three years - I do not think anyone would object if I were to say he was not meant to be (being the internet, it really does not come across right, but it is not a knock on a very fine young man). Tracy, well, less said the better. Again, not a knock. HOWEVER< it is thsi risk that Groce took that is just about cost Groce his job at UoI - or that is the arg being made.
All I am saying is that Groce should have taken the *same* risk with Lucas. We ALL know the Tate.Tracy story. We have no clue about the Lucas story. I am betting - because Groce is a one track mind - neither is he aware of that story (of what Lucas would do). Groce is so immersed in practice-dictate-the-outcome-of-the-game that he does not look at alternatives.
ANyways, I think I have exceeded my post count for the month.
Same way Wayne McClain went from coaching HS in Illinois to an assistant at Illinois?
What do you all think the chances of getting Tony Bennett from Virginia to Illinois?
Closer to zero than one percent, IMO, but I'd love to be wrong on that.
That's been discussed on this thread multiple times. The answer is zero.
That's really not accurate at all. Cal's placement in the Pac 12 since 2002
2014- 7
2013- 4
2012- 3
2011- 5
2010- 1
2009- 4
2008- 9
2007- 8
2006- 3
2005- 9
2004- 5
2003- 3
2002- 2
Average 4.84= More a top 5ish.
Martin is:
2015- 8
2016- 3
2017- 5th in progress.
Not seeing the drop off
- Status